Over Reaction?

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/action-needed-to-stop-the-use-of-killer-robots-report-says-12046509
I'll start to worry when we can program a robot to make a cup of tea!

[dannyk13]

Time to start worrying TTT :-
https://teaperspective.com/meet-1300-robot-wants-make-tea/

[Old_Geezer]

I would have thought it might be a hard thing to sell. Which government would want to risk the lives of military personnel unnecessarily, when one can send in a machine to do the job ? Most are likely to settle for an off switch that can be triggered remotely.

[Old_Geezer]

Are drones counted as robots ? What if they self controlled ?

[youngmafbog]

It will happen sometime, and probably not in the form we currently imagine (I dont think you will see RoboCop for instance).

As for banning it, wont happen either.

[archibaldy]

The first fully autonomous weapons are likely to be in the form of fleets of heavily armed drones that will be in the sky permanently 'loitering' in areas they have been programmed to do so. These will be programmed with parameters that if the conditions are met then subsequent pre-programmed engage actions will be executed. Due to the required reaction speeds of sub-millisecond when fighting other autonomous systems or under attack it won't be feasible for a human to be in the loop at any point, so hence fully autonomous and very dangerous.

Those systems definitely won't be making cups of tea, but they will be making toast.

[dannyk13]

archy //fully autonomous and very dangerous.//
But not as dangerous as the 'star wars programme' of theUSA.

[youngmafbog]

"But not as dangerous as the 'star wars programme' of theUSA."

Do you have the full details of this program Danny, if so I'd like to read them. From the Government of course.

And what about other countries that are building similar programmes? They ok are they?

[dannyk13]

Ymb, I don't have any details, just remember a TV programme about it.
//And what about other countries that are building similar programmes? They ok are they?//
I don't know of any other countries with similar programmes but there obviously must be some.Frightening to think of the result if it was ever actuated.

[ToraToraTora]

danny, that's no where near.
"star wars" was a con trick to win the cold war most of that was and still is pie in the sky.

[ToraToraTora]

archibaldy, we are a 1000 years from that.

[ToraToraTora]

ok here is the test. Go outside find the thickest person at random and lock them in your kitchen with all the facilities to make a cup of tea. Even if they are complete retards they will find the ingredients and do it and emerge with a cup of tea. When robots can do that we may be on the way. They are light years away from that now.

[archibaldy]

Maybe the next 5 - 30 years I'd say where autonomy will slowly increase. Loitering technology is key to how these will work. Some links below. Really don't see what making cups of tea has to do with it!

https://mwi.usma.edu/swarms-mass-destruction-case-declaring-armed-fully-autonomous-drone-swarms-wmd/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47555588

[ToraToraTora]

it may but the problem is we need a major advance in programming and that's nowhere near.

[ToraToraTora]

"Really don't see what making cups of tea has to do with it!" - then you have no grasp of programming me old china. Programming is about writing a list of instructions so that an automatic device can complete a task whilst having zero intelligence. The tea example is one of many possible simple tasks we can use to illustrate that even the dumbest person is infinitely more capable than the most advanced computer. If we cannot write a list of instructions to infallibly perform a simple task how can we hope to do it with a complex task like say a defence system or driving a car??

[archibaldy]

I have written many programs myself and used to work for a software company so have a better grasp than most actually.

The issue you refer to is that humans automatically learn from experience and easily make connections and patterns, this is very difficult to program into computers and not for some time will they be able to 'live an everyday life' because the operating space for this is far too open.

However computers are very good if the operating space is defined, such as flying planes for instance, and computers do this from takeoff to landing now. The operating space for driving and military systems are much more 'open' yes and will require a lot of work to capture all eventualities, and this is the issue I think you are referring to. But it is limited, they really won't be making cups of tea for instance and there are so many drivers to make them a reality that it will happen and very soon in my opinion.

[ToraToraTora]

yes, what I'm saying is that even the simplest of tasks are very difficult to write instructions for such than completely obedient servant with zero intelligence can complete the task. So when we can program a robot to do the things we find very simple we can start to widen that. The problem is that programming hasn't really moved on, we have more processing power and memory, so for example we can now program a pretty invincible chess program but, as you say that's a closed system with defined rules, parameters and objectives. Much, much harder is say self driving cars or indeed making a cup of tea.....

[tomus42]

// Calls are growing for an international ban on the creation of killer robots, which could pose a "grave threat to humanity".//

I agree, but I think we should probably ban all the killer humans that are a grave threat to humanity first. The robot problem is relatively minor.