Beginning Of The End?

[douglas9401]

Curiouser and curiouser: The long road to the truth starts with a single step.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53722711

[Peter Pedant]

they are still dead Dougie
this is not resurrection day
they still died from something and there are too many of them ( like it should be 5000 and it is 10)

this strikes me as a politician feel good manoeuvre and means nothing to the man in the street or the bod in the coffin

after all - - - what is truth?

oh and by the way Doug - arent you er mangling
长征始于第一步

( the long march began with the first step ) ? - - just um saying

[ToraToraTora]

well it's been a work of fiction up to now hasn't it.

[ToraToraTora]

who decides these things? Anyone who's ever had a test who subsequently dies is counted as dying of Covid! PMSL, what genius decided that? I could have a test and die of a bungee jump the next day For Funks Sake ! Un-effing-believable. Then there are those who died with covid of something else. I reckon you can halve the total.

[douglas9401]

Paraphrasing rather than mangling, shurely.

You're in danger of losing a fan, Pedro. ;-)

[albaqwerty]

Didn't Boris say at one of the press briefings it's not right to compare the UK death figures with other countries as they counted theirs differently?
The dead are still dead and the bereaved are still bereaved.

Has anything significant happened for them to change their way of counting?

I got the feeling when Boris announed the last press briefing that he was throwing in the towel and letting England just get on with it.
I may be wrong but that's my impression. :(

[woofgang]

I think that part of this is how you count things depends on what you want to use the information for....and no I don't mean hoodwinking the public. I used to "own" staff activity data in the days before IT data collection in the NHS. By own I mean that it was stored by me either on paper or in a very basic stand alone program which only my secretary or myself could get reports from. Whenever I was asked for data I always asked what the requestor wanted to use it for because different uses require different aspects of the same facts.

[ichkeria]

I don’t think it’s sinister. Just idiotic

[gulliver1]

Nothing new here , as usual the Public are being Conned by the Con Party.

[THECORBYLOON]

If they are using the same measure as the rest of the UK, does that not make sense?

[jno]

falling into line with Scotland. Whether that makes "sense" or not, or is "truth" or not, is another matter.

[jno]

Anyone who's ever had a test who subsequently dies is counted as dying of Covid

er, no, that's not what's been happening.

[ToraToraTora]

from the link: "Previously, people in England who died at any point following a positive test, regardless of cause, were counted in the figures." - read it!

[jno]

you omitted the word "positive". Make quite a difference, doesn't it?

[jim360]

// I reckon you can halve the total. //

I reckon it's actually been revised the wrong way, in a sense. I suppose by the strict requirement of having had a positive test for Covid rather than merely suspected Covid, then, yes, the new total is presumably more reasonable than the old one -- and I also suspected that daily deaths data since early July has been more than a little misleading. But you still have the excess mortality statistics, which is in the region of 57,000 (+25%) in England/Wales over the five-year average since March.

Put bluntly, anyone who sees this statistical revision as indicative that the pandemic's toll is a "work of fiction" is wrong.

[Peter Pedant]

OK apolz Dougie
you arent the Midnight Mangler - it was some one else
( he shall not live!)

The dead are still dead and the bereaved are still bereaved. alba

I dont think it is fair to the bereaved as the next logical question ( in the AB sense ) is - "then they neednt have died then?"

[THECORBYLOON]

JNO, careful now, you don't want TTT accusing you of "looking for things to knit [sic] pick at."

I was going to point out the same thing but I got distracted.

[youngmafbog]

"I reckon it's actually been revised the wrong way, "

Well there is a surprise, you (and other Covid worshippers) have been frothing at the mouth at large figures.

The truth is, at this point, no one knows and without in depth analysis over a couple of years no one will know.

[youngmafbog]

"But you still have the excess mortality statistics, which is in the region of 57,000 (+25%) in England/Wales over the five-year average since March"

Still misleading. Unless you go through each death and understand it then just taking excess deaths is just as pointless. For example excess deaths will contain people who have died because of Covid actions, unless you are saying no one has?

[jim360]

I'm not saying nobody has, but I don't think anybody can take seriously the idea that 57,000 died not because of Covid but because of lockdown. It's a nonsense: it rejects testimony from medical experts across the world, be they epidemiologists or frontline medical staff; it rejects statistical evidence of, say, deaths rising in line with confirmed cases; incidentally, it also rejects the evidence that, as fewer cases of Covid-19 are recorded in the UK, the death rate has also fallen back to normal levels.

I am not sure it is right to say that all of the 57,000 deaths are directly because of Covid-19 either, but it is clear that a bulk of them are.

Finally -- come on, ymb, you used to be better at arguments than some nonsense about Covid worship. What is wrong with you?