Starting To Feel Sorry For Boris.

[gulliver1]

On the 2nd JAN this year, Boris stood on the steps of Downing St, and announced with a double thumbs up sign........"This is going to be a fantastic year for Britain".......Little did he realise then, what was ahead.
Boris is not famous for his honesty,but that day he did not realise he was telling the biggest unintentional lie of his life.

[gulliver1]

12.58 ,This is an Unbelievable answer from TTT. If Boris makes a " Statement or a suggestion," then it is the truth according to TTT . Wow they certainly taught you well at the Boris school of Radicalisation.

[dannyk13]

Corby //at Corbyn had declared he would dismantle a major part of our security service and Johnson knew that was a lie.//
Was it? Have you any proof of that?

[jim360]

TTT wants to rob everyone on AB.

[Mozz71]

//I can't believe you remoaners are still banging on about the bus, you lost, accept it.//

You know full well that I have accepted it. You wanted an example of Boris' fibbing, I provided it. Quite frankly, this is showing how hopelessly blind to Tory BS you've become, that you are quite happy to defend anything, no matter how indefensible it may be.

[THECORBYLOON]

I don't need proof, Im going by TTT's standards.

[jim360]

No, but, seriously. If assigning intentions to the opposition that are utterly made-up isn't lying, I am not sure what is. And just because it *is* part and parcel of politics doesn't mean that it *should* be.

[ToraToraTora]

TCL: "He claimed Corbyn had said he would disband MI5. He didn't say he had a feeling or the impression, he claimed Corbyn himself had SAID he would disband MI5. " - you are getting desperate me old china, no one ever says it like that. When Gordon Brown said in the run up to the 2001 election he said the Tories were planning £20bn service cuts, he didn't say he "believed" they were or that he got that impression, he said they "WERE" planning £20bn in service cuts. It's rhetoric, I'm amazed you are so naive. I'm also amazed you're taking such a beating for gulliver!

[dannyk13]

Corby,//I don't need proof, Im going by TTT's standards.//
Oh! OK, Lets all make things up as we go along a la Gulliver.Time for me to leave this thread Ciao.

[ToraToraTora]

mozz: "You know full well that I have accepted it. You wanted an example of Boris' fibbing, I provided it. " - but you haven't, we did at the time pay the EUSSR £350m per week. Have you evidence to the contrary?

[THECORBYLOON]

"I'm also amazed you're taking such a beating for gulliver!"

If you think your pathetic wriggling to defend Johnson is "such a beating" you have a misguided opinion of yourself.

[ToraToraTora]

I'm not defending anyone, I'm trying to educate you as to what a lie is.

[jim360]

There has never been a point where we paid the EU £350m/week. Even before taking into account the rebate it has never been true.

What's so frustrating about that "lie" is that is shouldn't even have been necessary. "We send the EU £250 million a week" would have worked just as well.

https://fullfact.org/europe/350-million-week-boris-johnson-statistics-authority-misuse/

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

[jim360]

Also:
https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Letter-from-Sir-Andrew-Dilnot-to-Mr-Cummings-10-May-2016-.pdf

[gulliver1]

13.29 Bye Danny don't stay away to long , you always make me laugh, missing you already.

[Mozz71]

Even Nige backtracked on the bus statement. Obviously after the battle was won, but he still did it. So it seems that even Nigel Farage has more scruples than Tora, which is something I wouldn't say lightly.

[ToraToraTora]

cobras, the amount of our money that the EUSSR have control over was at the time £350m per week, they deign to give us some of our own money back to spend on what they dictate. The figure on the bus is valid because we would now have the full £350m to spend how we choose.

[Jackdaw33]

The battle for Brexit is over, done and dusted.

[THECORBYLOON]

Perhaps it had been an "intention" to hand over £350m each week to the EU...

[ToraToraTora]

thanks jim, from that letter:
" I note the use of the £350 million figure, which appears to be a gross figure which does not take into account the rebate, or other flows from the EU to the UK public sector (or flows to non-public sector bodies), alongside the suggestion that this could be spent elsewhere." - as I said above the £350m is the figure of the amount controlled by the EUSSR that will now be controlled by the UK. Thank you for confirming my point. Note also the phrase "alongside the suggestion" - for years the remoaners have been incapable of grasping that the idea of potentially spending it on the NHS was one suggestion, a concept our remainers friends have struggled with. Thanks for this.

[jim360]

It's not cobras, TTT, although the irony is that (I think) you're missing the entire point of that claim. It *is* false, and it's stupid to pretend otherwise, that we sent the EU £350 million a week. As I pointed out above, official statistics show that it is never true and has never been true. Cummings replied to the letter and argued otherwise, but even that I think played into his objective. You've got to back up a claim you know to be false if there's a purpose behind the false claim.

As far as I can see in retrospect, the point is that Voters would see/hear (apologies for caps, but it's important to make the point visually):

WE SEND THE EU ᵗʰʳᵉᵉ HUNDRED ᵃⁿᵈ ᶠᶦᶠᵗʸ MILLION POUNDS A WEEK

which sounds like (and is) a lot. Remain voters and campaigners saw the "350", looked into it, realised it was wrong, and kicked up a fuss. But, of course, their correct calculations turn the figure into 250, or possibly 175 million a week. In other words:

1. Everything in the original claim in capitals remains true;
2. All of the arguments against the claim merely serve to reinforce its main point;
3. Therefore, why should we as voters care about the precise figure? We send the EU a large amount of money each week, and it sounds like way too much.

The £350 million a week lie was, possibly, genius, if seen from this perspective. It's wrong, but it was right in all the ways that mattered.