News2 mins ago
Is Hs2 Now A Complete Waste Of Money And Totally Pointless , Even More So Than Before?
Now that working from home is becoming ever more popular due to the virus and the realisation you don't have to travel hundreds of miles to attend meetings etc and it can all be done remotely, it seems like that its from another era. We should be spending some of the billions on improving the existing network instead.
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Working from home is, IMO, likely to be less popular when things are allowed to return to normal. Even if one is happy to dedicate part of one's own home to do work for an employer, and appreciates the removal of commuting time, eventually the lack of true social interaction, and continuous distractions away from the work environment, must sink in for many. Not to mention the benefit of having someone at your shoulder to help make suggestions on a problem you're having. It's just not the same on a TV link.
Meetings were possible at different workplaces anyway.
Whether we need high speed rail connections remains the same contentious issue it ever was. Butv there's nothing like 'pressing the flesh' to make a network of contacts and career progress.
Meetings were possible at different workplaces anyway.
Whether we need high speed rail connections remains the same contentious issue it ever was. Butv there's nothing like 'pressing the flesh' to make a network of contacts and career progress.
Part of the problem is most dont have homes that are good enough to work in permanently. Many are working on laptops on sofas and that is not good for the employer or employee.
We have two offices with proper office furniture, three screens in each with 100MB internet, one has a 50 inch tv that is excellent for Teams meetings. This is what you need if two people are working from home but how many have that?
OG has also made a very valid point. There is nothign like pressing the flesh to get on and for apprentices learning is very difficult if there are no old gits like me around to give helpful pointeres.
Plus for once I agree with Ummm. I did WFH for years and yes it does become lonely.
We have two offices with proper office furniture, three screens in each with 100MB internet, one has a 50 inch tv that is excellent for Teams meetings. This is what you need if two people are working from home but how many have that?
OG has also made a very valid point. There is nothign like pressing the flesh to get on and for apprentices learning is very difficult if there are no old gits like me around to give helpful pointeres.
Plus for once I agree with Ummm. I did WFH for years and yes it does become lonely.
// We should be spending some of the billions on improving the existing network instead. //
You have to bear in mind that the point of HS2 was to relieve the chronic overcrowding on the west coast main line. That may not be an issue now, but it may well be again in the future. if we accept a need to plan for the future, then it's the west coast main line that needs the attention - if you divert the billions elsewhere now (northern "powerhouse" maybe), the problem will still be there on the west coast when the cash is needed there.
the west coast route was expensively upgraded at the turn of the century. it took 15 years, during which time there were continuous interruptions and disruptions as works were being carried out on a working railway. when it was completed in 2009 it was meant to provide extra capacity to 2025. by 2015 that "extra" capacity had already been used up. if a further upgrade were to be attempted it could take 20-30 years and involve rebuilding so extensive that it would involve years of "bertie the bus", cost more than HS2, and probably displace thousands of people to make space for the extra capacity required in urban areas.
//it can all be done remotely//
er no, it's all being done remotely because there's no choice. some of it can remain remote but a good proportion of meeting work is made unnecessarily difficult by having to do it online. repeated zoom sessions are mind-destroying and very hard going and having to prepare everything in advance, doubly so. not to mention that domestic broadband was never intended to be put to such use and frequently shows its displeasure by going slow or blicking off altogether just at the critical moment.....
You have to bear in mind that the point of HS2 was to relieve the chronic overcrowding on the west coast main line. That may not be an issue now, but it may well be again in the future. if we accept a need to plan for the future, then it's the west coast main line that needs the attention - if you divert the billions elsewhere now (northern "powerhouse" maybe), the problem will still be there on the west coast when the cash is needed there.
the west coast route was expensively upgraded at the turn of the century. it took 15 years, during which time there were continuous interruptions and disruptions as works were being carried out on a working railway. when it was completed in 2009 it was meant to provide extra capacity to 2025. by 2015 that "extra" capacity had already been used up. if a further upgrade were to be attempted it could take 20-30 years and involve rebuilding so extensive that it would involve years of "bertie the bus", cost more than HS2, and probably displace thousands of people to make space for the extra capacity required in urban areas.
//it can all be done remotely//
er no, it's all being done remotely because there's no choice. some of it can remain remote but a good proportion of meeting work is made unnecessarily difficult by having to do it online. repeated zoom sessions are mind-destroying and very hard going and having to prepare everything in advance, doubly so. not to mention that domestic broadband was never intended to be put to such use and frequently shows its displeasure by going slow or blicking off altogether just at the critical moment.....
My domestic broadband is fine :-)
You can run teams remotely, I have had to do it with my team/colleagues in various different countries - Bruxelles, Frankfurt, Paris, Sydney, NY, Florida, India, Bulgaria to name a few. I did travel to most but not all and managed deliveries well. Admittedly there were good local people on site though. I think it depends on your job wether or not it can be done.
You can run teams remotely, I have had to do it with my team/colleagues in various different countries - Bruxelles, Frankfurt, Paris, Sydney, NY, Florida, India, Bulgaria to name a few. I did travel to most but not all and managed deliveries well. Admittedly there were good local people on site though. I think it depends on your job wether or not it can be done.
The WFH distraction is a red herring when it comes to HS2. In any case, as pointed out, the fad will fade when employees get fed up with working in their kitchen with a laptop propped up against the toaster and their customers get fed up with the third rate service that such an arrangement often provides.
Not many people commute daily between London, Birmingham and the north. However, a lot of people do commute into the cities that HS2 will eventually serve from intermediate points. Many of their services are running on lines that are (in normal times) on the edge of busting their capacity. There are no more "paths" to insert extra trains and the trains themselves are (or soon will be) as long as they can practically get. HS2 will remove a lot of the inter-city fast trains from those lines and free up capacity for local trains.
No substantial main line railway was built in England in the twentieth century. The only line built in the 21st was HS1 from London to the Kent coast. It is simply not sufficient to say that what we now have is all that we can have. Business expands, the economy expands and infrastructure must expand to meet that growth. The current crisis is temporary. Talk of a "major reset" and the like is unjustified and when the government finds the marbles it has lost and people begin to behave normally again (as they will) that increased demand will manifest itself again. There has been a huge demand in rail travel in the last twenty years and that demand will continue to grow. People who envisage and plan railways have the long game in mind; it takes more than a fortnight to build a major railway. The introduction and growth of the railways in the Victorian era brought with it huge changes - mainly for the better - to the way people lived their lives. Railways are good for the economy and good for people. Yes, their construction causes disruption but so long as people and goods need to be moved about the country their expansion will be necessary.
Not many people commute daily between London, Birmingham and the north. However, a lot of people do commute into the cities that HS2 will eventually serve from intermediate points. Many of their services are running on lines that are (in normal times) on the edge of busting their capacity. There are no more "paths" to insert extra trains and the trains themselves are (or soon will be) as long as they can practically get. HS2 will remove a lot of the inter-city fast trains from those lines and free up capacity for local trains.
No substantial main line railway was built in England in the twentieth century. The only line built in the 21st was HS1 from London to the Kent coast. It is simply not sufficient to say that what we now have is all that we can have. Business expands, the economy expands and infrastructure must expand to meet that growth. The current crisis is temporary. Talk of a "major reset" and the like is unjustified and when the government finds the marbles it has lost and people begin to behave normally again (as they will) that increased demand will manifest itself again. There has been a huge demand in rail travel in the last twenty years and that demand will continue to grow. People who envisage and plan railways have the long game in mind; it takes more than a fortnight to build a major railway. The introduction and growth of the railways in the Victorian era brought with it huge changes - mainly for the better - to the way people lived their lives. Railways are good for the economy and good for people. Yes, their construction causes disruption but so long as people and goods need to be moved about the country their expansion will be necessary.
One thing that remote meetings & the like is never going to work well with is Sales. Sales people can & do work very well through phone calls, but only up to a point. To land, and subsequently seal, a significant contract needs physical presence. If you're explaining some drawings to a CEO, with techies, lawyers & all present, a remote screen-share just isn't going to cut it.
What seems to be the most likely scenario brought about by tele-conferencing (& similar) is that the growth in business travel will slow down a bit. It's not as if these techniques are anything really novel. Early versions of the systems used to transmit compressed Audio & Video were standardised in the mid-1990s. By 2000, teleconferencing was in regular use in largish organizations, primarily to save on travel costs & staff time being wasted. Since then, we've seen significant technical advances which have meant that remote meetings can be attended from a laptop rather than in a specialist studio.
These advances had not gone un-noticed by businesses but we still had the situation (W Coast Mainline) where the capacity planned for 2025 was filled by 2015. This simply goes to show that the need of modern business for people to travel was growing faster than had been envisaged at the outset. At the same time, businesses had already been using remote working wherever possible, so the concept that Zoom & the like mean the end of HS2 doesn't fly. The increasing complexity of modern business will continue to need more & more personal contact.
What seems to be the most likely scenario brought about by tele-conferencing (& similar) is that the growth in business travel will slow down a bit. It's not as if these techniques are anything really novel. Early versions of the systems used to transmit compressed Audio & Video were standardised in the mid-1990s. By 2000, teleconferencing was in regular use in largish organizations, primarily to save on travel costs & staff time being wasted. Since then, we've seen significant technical advances which have meant that remote meetings can be attended from a laptop rather than in a specialist studio.
These advances had not gone un-noticed by businesses but we still had the situation (W Coast Mainline) where the capacity planned for 2025 was filled by 2015. This simply goes to show that the need of modern business for people to travel was growing faster than had been envisaged at the outset. At the same time, businesses had already been using remote working wherever possible, so the concept that Zoom & the like mean the end of HS2 doesn't fly. The increasing complexity of modern business will continue to need more & more personal contact.
WFH will depend more on employers, than employees. If they can get the same productivity cheaper, of course they will. They won't rent a big office block because some employees are a bit bored. I think it will work for some and not others.
I've always though HS2 is very short-sighted and unnecessary. The cost is too much (and not just financial).
I've always though HS2 is very short-sighted and unnecessary. The cost is too much (and not just financial).
// I think the idea of HS2 is more to do with goods rather than passengers. //
it is. at present the WestCoast is running at 80% of passenger train capacity. the route is however full again, as the extra capacity has been taken by running more freight trains. if/when the normal passenger timetable is resumed, there will be a problem. trains cannot be lengthened to compensate because a number of key stations (including Liverpool Lime Street) are constrained by immovable infrastructure.
it is. at present the WestCoast is running at 80% of passenger train capacity. the route is however full again, as the extra capacity has been taken by running more freight trains. if/when the normal passenger timetable is resumed, there will be a problem. trains cannot be lengthened to compensate because a number of key stations (including Liverpool Lime Street) are constrained by immovable infrastructure.
//But people are working from home, so we don’t need them.[new roads]
It's just a thought, but roads are not required solely to get people to work. The majority of people who are WFH are office based. Most other people cannot realistically work from home. If you travel by road outside normal "office rush hour" you will see they are still very busy. They are busy with freight, with construction and maintenance traffic, with leisure traffic. All sorts, in fact. Those who travel to and from offices are just a small part of the traffic.
There have been a few reports published in the last couple of days which suggest that employers are now beginning to realise that WFH does not produce the same level of productivity as having their people working in the office. Many customers (me included) could have told them that months ago. But as a result many are now planning to resume normal working as soon as they can.
It's just a thought, but roads are not required solely to get people to work. The majority of people who are WFH are office based. Most other people cannot realistically work from home. If you travel by road outside normal "office rush hour" you will see they are still very busy. They are busy with freight, with construction and maintenance traffic, with leisure traffic. All sorts, in fact. Those who travel to and from offices are just a small part of the traffic.
There have been a few reports published in the last couple of days which suggest that employers are now beginning to realise that WFH does not produce the same level of productivity as having their people working in the office. Many customers (me included) could have told them that months ago. But as a result many are now planning to resume normal working as soon as they can.
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