Abuse In The Church Of England

[Theland]

More shame for the church.
Safeguarding doesn't work it seems.



https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2020-10-22/former-bishop-of-chester-committed-appalling-sexual-abuse-reports-finds

[iluvmargie]

No I don't, he's ranting and raving about someone he doesn't believe exists, why??

[naomi24]

AH, whether criminals or not, people who do things ‘in the name of God’ fervently believe they are carrying out ‘God’s will'. Lee Rigby’s killers are an example. Child abusers who lie to achieve their purpose are very well aware that they are not carrying out God’s will. They’re just dirty, filthy, disgusting perverts.

[Old_Geezer]

It's sarcasm in order to score over believers.

Meanwhile I think it's been established that if a diety exists, it appears to have a reason not to interfere with individual free will. Indeed common sense tells us folk would get up to all sorts of activities if they knew a God would protect them, so near complete non-interference should be expected.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Child abusers who lie to achieve their purpose are very well aware that they are not carrying out God’s will. //

Another sweeping statement based on what you would like to believe to be to true, rather than something you can even begin to back up with evidence.

[Spicerack]

So, you think the Christian Church endorses paedophilia, Andy?

[drmorgans]

No, but when it knows that children are being abused it ignores it, moves the perpetrator so they can continue elsewhere, and uses all its power to cover up their behaviour.

[TrevorThePug]

Pixie/Jno - some good points - religious willy waggling aside ^^, a similar thing occurred in USA gymnastics. One horrendous evil individual surrounded by (enablers / do nothings) who really should have ‘done something’ to protect those poor girls and get this person removed to prison.

It’s turned Gymnastics upside down across the globe. See Athlete A on Netflix if interested.

[naomi24]

AH, //Another sweeping statement based on what you would like to believe to be to true, rather than something you can even begin to back up with evidence. //

I see. My opinion requires evidence to support it whereas your flight of imagination doesn't. That figures.

[rowanwitch]

Structured religion will always give people a place to hide, and justification for their behaviour, it was gods will, the devil tempts me are sides of the same coin that means they don't face the reality they are sick, and wrong. If all you need is to admit wrongdoing and seek forgiveness the cycle will repeat. I was weak is not an excuse and no amount of religious retreats and time to contemplate will make a difference. Add to that a large organisation with economic drivers, cover ups will be a given. Such a shame when we far as I can see all faiths seem to have their share of devout and truly decent people who get started with the same brush.

[andy-hughes]

Spicerack - // So, you think the Christian Church endorses paedophilia, Andy? //

Nice try, but you're going to have to be more subtle than that if you want to get me wound up - it's not that eay.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // I see. My opinion requires evidence to support it whereas your flight of imagination doesn't. That figures. //

An absolutely fair point.

But I do feel that my position has more merit, even though neither of us can prove what we believe to be true.

I think a fairer assessment is that we are both absolutely right in some cases, and absolutely wrong in others, but we will never know which is which.

[andy-hughes]

rowanwitch - // Structured religion will always give people a place to hide, and justification for their behaviour, it was gods will, the devil tempts me are sides of the same coin that means they don't face the reality they are sick, and wrong. If all you need is to admit wrongdoing and seek forgiveness the cycle will repeat. I was weak is not an excuse and no amount of religious retreats and time to contemplate will make a difference. Add to that a large organisation with economic drivers, cover ups will be a given. Such a shame when we far as I can see all faiths seem to have their share of devout and truly decent people who get started with the same brush. //

Sadly, you are absolutely right.

I have said several times, usually with reference to terrorists - no-one looks in the mirror and tells their reflection that they are an irredeemably horrible human being, it's simply not how the mind works.

People can, and indeed do, justify the most horrendous behaviour to themselves, and indeed to others, but that is never going to stop because it is built into the human condition.

[naomi24]

AH, Spicerack’s question is valid. You claim to have read the bible so if you think these creatures genuinely believe they are pursuing their vile activities in the name of God, produce the source of their inspiration.

[Mozz71]

To answer Spicy's question in a way Andy decided not to, of course the church doesn't endorse child abuse, but it doesn't do anything near enough to stop it either. This lack of action makes it an enabler, a convenient cover for perverts to abuse under.

[TrevorThePug]

Ok mozz so how far removed from the source do you need to be to become unaccountable?

Are we talking just management or the whole church including the believers? Should I go and harass Daphne in the village because by default she is an enabler?

[rowanwitch]

If you know about it and don't act on that knowledge then I feel you should be arrested and face an appropriate legal penalty.
No way you would know, no guilt attached. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[TrevorThePug]

Ok, I will ask Daphne if she knew.

As a true Christian she would give me an honest answer I’m sure.

[Mozz71]

No, I'm not talking about churchgoers, I'm talking about the church hierarchy, the decision-makers of the organisation in the UK. They are the ones who need to act.

Others can speak out about such matters, and put pressure on those people (which I'm sure many do), but they are not responsible for these crimes.

[TrevorThePug]

But if Daphne knew about it and did nothing, she’d be guilty of assisting a cover up as much as the other Bishops and officials.

People ‘made noises’ in the 70s 80s 90s and 00s. It seems even the victims’ own families became enablers (by coercion, manipulation or default).

As in my earlier post, the parents of the Athlete A girls effectively became enablers (unwittingly or otherwise).

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // AH, Spicerack’s question is valid. You claim to have read the bible so if you think these creatures genuinely believe they are pursuing their vile activities in the name of God, produce the source of their inspiration. //

Note the word he started his response with - spicerack is on a wide-up and as advised, I am not biting.