Killers on Dope.....

[Loosehead]

So Anthony Walker's killers had just been smoking dope. Now I've always been told by the dope enthusiasts that it is preferrable to booze because the latter induces violence. Now hitting someone with an Ice axe is a sort of violence isn't it? mmm any comments from the dope supporters?

Source: Sky news.

[kick3m0n]

cannabis will not produce violent tendencies in the same way drink does, but come on Loosehead, no one said it prevented violence. I think you're coming at this from a very weird point of view. The two who killed Anthony are clearly violent, psychopathic biggotted scumbags. No amount of dope will over come those aspects of their personalities. The fact is that if everyone who drank themselves stupid of a weekend smoked dope instead, the incidence of violent assaults would fall massively. People on dope just do not get as edgy, nasty or adrenalinised as they do on alcohol. To take these two vicious thugs and make some sort of anti-dope point seems to be very niaive and inappropriate.

[Loosehead]

Ok Kick3, I guess It's a bit tongue in cheek, It's just we are always being told how wonderful dope is and the reasons why. One of them being that it makes you want to love the world etc etc. I suppose I couldn't resist this example where clearly the agro suppression qualities where found wanting. I'm not for a minute suggesting that dope enhanced their violent tendencies, rather that it didn't, as is often claimed, supress them.

[kick3m0n]

no one I know says it's wonderful, but I think the point is that it is not as bad as alcohol, no matter which parameters you use to measure it's affects.

Sorry if I was having a bit of a go, but I do feel your point was a inappropriate and trivialised an horrific attack.

x

[WaldoMcFroog]

The guilty parties first attacked Anthony outside a pub according to the BBC reports, so I would suggest that they had been drinking and that this was probably a factor.

If they had been drinking and smoking dope, I'd guess it depends on the relative amounts of each that had been consumed, but the fact remains that one of those substances is well understood to exacerbate violent tendancies in some people when taken to excess, the other is not.

[nedflanders]

god knows what they would have done if they hadnt been doped up! this pair of lunatics is another point scored for the arguement for capital punishment (which IMO I agree with).

[loudickson71]

Yeah, Loose is wrong in one way, but right in another.

Weed is strongly linked to increased risk of schizophrenia. If there was ever a pathology that was gonna be a risk for violence...

[aka pixi]

hi loosehead, in all the time I have been a member of AB, I dont think I have ever posted in this section, but I felt I couln't pass this question by without making a comment.

I smoke weed every night and have done for over 20 years. In all that time I have known or met literally hundreds of people that smoke weed. I would say that almost 100% of them are of a calm, placid non-violent nature - I have also met a handful of people who were extremely violent and smoked weed. These people were agressive and violent regardless of whether they had smoked weed or not.

As kick3m0n said cannabis does not prevent violence.

[loudickson71]

It does cause significant mental health problems for a very large proportion of the population, however.

[kick3m0n]

I'm going to eb picky because teh sentence "It does cause significant mental health problems for a lagre proportion of the population" is nonsense. Give me numbers and I'll consider your point. I mean, what percentage of the population smoke weed? What percentage of them then go on to develop mental health problems? I'm sorry, but your sweeping statement just cannot be backed up with stats at the moment. There is a proven increased likelihood of developing mental health issues if you smoke enough dope over a long enough period, but to say a large percentage develop such probelms is utter nonsense. even if you're just talking about a large percentage of dope smokers, there is just no evidence to support this, yet as not enough research has been done on long term cannabis users and their mental health status.

[nedflanders]

Shocking sentences handed out Im afraid. 17 and 24 years. Not long enough in my opinion!

[kick3m0n]

just seen it on the news, totally agree Ned.

[loudickson71]

I guess there were mitigating circumstances, for example, they were maybe high on drugs. Also, they are very young.

[Loosehead]

And they'll only do half that Ned and probably in better conditions that a lot of pensioners live in. Life should mean life in a proper prison.

[loudickson71]

I was joking there. They are scum at any age.

The younger one looks like a proper psycho tho!

[LazyGun]

These sentences are minimum term tariffs though arent they? So they should serve out the 17 and 23 years as an absolute mimimum?

[Loosehead]

My apologies they are minimum sentences, still too short though.

[Andy008]

Smoking cannabis alone cannot have been the deciding factor in the murder. If they were under the influence of cannabis, that may have contributed to their state of mind, but was not in itself the cause of their decision to murder someone. Thousands of people leave nightclubs and pubs every weekend in a drunken state, only a small minority cause trouble. Ask any police officer and they will tell you that they are often known troublemakers, setting out on a night with the intention of breaking the law. The intention is already present, the alcohol/drugs merely complement that, but are not in themselves responsible.

[loudickson71]

yeah but....without the alcohol, in many cases they simply would not have committed the crime. Tackle the binge drinking and the problem would not be there. 'Oh but I get drunk and don't start fights'. Fine. But they're not you...

[Drisgirl]

I know people who smoke dope whose tolerance level is decreased because conversely they are so chilled they say things to people and do things they normally wouldnt do.Wouldnt go as far as to say they would be mass murderers but can still cause hassle and then laugh their heads off.Its not always happy baccy particularly combined with other mind altering substances

Life should mean life in any case.Dont believe in capital punishment.Cowards way out - let them rot and have to watch theirs backs for the rest of their living days.

Most take the easy option anyway - Shipman West et al.Huntley,Brady Sutcliffe have all tried.

[stevie_c2it]

I might get shouted down for this, but in comparison to other criminal acts, I think these are fairly severe sentences (deservedly so, I might add), but compare the type of sentence a motorist might get for ploughing down a member of the public whilst driving without due care. They�d be unlucky to serve more than four years, and yet equally another innocent life has been lost though mindless behaviour. The gap seems too wide.