London Might Be Tier 3 Today

[brainiac]

Just when we thought things were improving, it's all getting much worse. The 5-day relaxation over Christmas is madness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55301192

[teacake44]

Don't really understand the concern about the 5 day relaxation anymore because the town centers / shops are crammed by what I see. Only the the hospitality are the ones suffering at the moment.

[New Judge]

//...doom and gloom is that we have 60,000 dead or thereabouts,//

Very true.

Also true is that that figure represents about 8% of the total deaths in the 8 months or so since the first Covid death. Also true is that, at this time of the year particularly, many older people die of respiratory infections. Many of those who have sadly died from Covid may well have died from other ailments in a normal year. If you look at the numbers that die each year from 'flu and pneumonia they are truly "horrendous". Far more horrendous than the numbers dying from Covid.

[New Judge]

//Don't really understand the concern about the 5 day relaxation anymore because the town centers / shops are crammed by what I see. Only the the hospitality are the ones suffering at the moment.//

Quite true, tc. Part of a post I made in the “New Variant” thread is probably more pertinent to this one:

“Many areas of the south-east (including London) will join Kent tomorrow and enter "Tier 3". And a lot of good that will do (apart from destroy what's left of the hospitality industry in those areas). The only significant difference between Tiers 2 and 3 is the closure of hospitality. Well, hospitality in Kent has been closed for almost six weeks. About two weeks ago (i.e. four weeks after the pubs and restaurants closed) Swale became the area with the highest rate of infections in the country, closely followed by its neighbours Medway and Thanet. Nearby Maidstone is coming up fast on the rails. So it's not the pubs and restaurants causing that increase. I've a very good idea what is. Last week I had the unfortunate experience of shopping in my local ASDA at about 3:30pm. I never usually shop at that time but circumstances meant I had to. The shop and the surrounding precinct was mobbed out with schoolchildren who had finished school and decided to continue their activities in the shops. There were dozens of groups roaming all over the place simply passing their time in the shops. Meantime from Wednesday Mrs NJ and I will have to cancel the cosy dinners we have once a week in our local restaurants where few people arrive in groups of more than two and everybody is well distanced.

It is not hospitality or a "variant" of the virus that is responsible for increasing the spread in this country. It is schoolchildren.”

[bobbinwales]

^Nonsense of course- 60000 is the low end of the figures, excess deaths or suing covid on death certs suggest something like 80000.
And whatever the number of other deaths is concerned its no consolation to those relatives of the 60000. Just had a card from former work mate of mine I surprisingly hadnt heard from for a few months months has been really ill with covid, still struggling to breath, and his business partner died within 2 weeks of getting it. Both were around 60 but were fit as fiddles, one was still refereeing football matches until catching it, Am gutted

[emmie]

: Healthy individuals usually recover within a week, but for some the disease can lead to hospitalisation, permanent disability or even death. FACT: Flu kills. An average of 8000 people die from flu in England each year.

[Prudie]

I actually agree with you Teacake - that 5 days will just be families mixing and the high streets will be much quieter than they are at the moment. I'm hoping to see my daughter and partner - just the 4 of us. We have done the rules all year - there is no reason to suddenly think one of us is going to pass it on to the other over Xmas. In hindsight we could have spent every day this year together and not got it.
And as for hospitals, are some of you just assuming they are overrun and collapsing on their knees because I know they're not in my area nor have they been all year.

[emmie]

i think the hospitals are waiting for spike that could happen after Christmas...

[bobbinwales]

//If you look at the numbers that die each year from 'flu and pneumonia they are truly "horrendous". Far more horrendous than the numbers dying from Covid.?
Have you got the figures?? Last time a looked Covid deaths in the last 9 months were far far higher than flue deaths from previous year's

[emmie]

i have posted the figures bobbin,

[emmie]

17.41

[Sqad]

Prudie

//////And as for hospitals, are some of you just assuming they are overrun and collapsing on their knees because I know they're not in my area nor have they been all year//

Good, I am glad for you and the lovely part of the country in which you live.
Let's hope you Christmas visitors have been as careful as you.

[bobbinwales]

Am not sure we should be mixing much over Christmas but if its done sensibly am not sure it'll be disastress, partly because peopel wont be in pubs and hospitality in London but allso because schools are shut. School children arent badly affected but mix in large numbers and it spreads like wildfire and gets past onto parents and granparents, so with schools shut infections should slow in late December and cancell out any increases due to Xmas mixing

[iluvmargie]

I'm still seeing my family too and looking forward to it, whether the government cancels it or not! I NEVER listen to the boring scaremongers on here and will ignore all the boring covid threads from now on in, there are far too many!! Signed: A Possible Anti Vaxxer.

[bobbinwales]

Thanks emmie, So covid deaths are way above normal flue deaths. So maybe new judge will justify his claim in some other way - or maybe its rubbish

[teacake44]

I just come back from getting my car an m.o.t, rather than wait around for an hour for it to be done, I went on a walk to a local Asda, I'm not joking it was crammed inside, no control of numbers going in at all, or anyone on the door to even do that. Lets face it these supermarkets just want to get money in the till, more so this time of year no matter what. Needless to say walked in one door and out the other, this Asda has two floors and you could see the upstairs was also full to the brim, so being at home with who you know on Xmas day seems far less risky.

[naomi24]

Bobbin, the majority of those dying with covid are elderly and suffering from other conditions too. The figures we really need are the numbers dying solely from the virus - and that’s what we aren’t getting. We really need to know how many are dying FROM it rather than WITH it. Anything less is highly misleading.

[emmie]

agree but those figures don't seem to be forthcoming

[emmie]

one can only go by the guidelines set out. If some, or many don;t want to do that then what can you do.

[bobbinwales]

naomi- however peopel try to spin in the deaths this year have been around 80000* above normal levels, thats a significent increase (hopefully someone can fill in the excess deaths figure. ) and is due directly and indirectly to covid The covid deaths figure will include some who might of died anyway but the covid figures dont include covid deaths where there was no test but the death certificate believes it was mainly covid

[emmie]

some seem to have been admittedd to hospital with other life threatening conditions and caught covid whilst there. The death certificate stating they died from Covid 19.