Film, Media & TV5 mins ago
A Lot About The Free Speech Union
101 Answers
on Newsnight tonight. I joined. Maybe fellow ABers might be interested as I'm sure we must all agree with free speech.
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I wonder what the FSU would do if one of their members were critical of the FSU?
00:44 Wed 06th Jan 2021
> Ellipsis, What do you mean?
Sticking with the holocaust denial example - this is illegal in some countries and not others. So when you wrote ...
> People should be able to say what they want to say - but if they say something that is against the law then they must face the consequences of breaking the law. In that instance I doubt this organisation would defend that.
Would the organisation defend the freedom of speech required to deny the Holocaust?
Also, to quote your example: "an Imam inciting others" - this may not be illegal in the country in which the Imam resides. If the Imam is a member of the FSU, will the FSU defend the Imam's right to free speech?
I'm not saying it should or it shouldn't. All I'm saying is that freedom of speech is a tricky area, as events in the USA are showing, and that for an organisation to set itself up as the "Free Speech Union", it should make clear where it sees the boundaries, if any, especially if it's asking for money.
Sticking with the holocaust denial example - this is illegal in some countries and not others. So when you wrote ...
> People should be able to say what they want to say - but if they say something that is against the law then they must face the consequences of breaking the law. In that instance I doubt this organisation would defend that.
Would the organisation defend the freedom of speech required to deny the Holocaust?
Also, to quote your example: "an Imam inciting others" - this may not be illegal in the country in which the Imam resides. If the Imam is a member of the FSU, will the FSU defend the Imam's right to free speech?
I'm not saying it should or it shouldn't. All I'm saying is that freedom of speech is a tricky area, as events in the USA are showing, and that for an organisation to set itself up as the "Free Speech Union", it should make clear where it sees the boundaries, if any, especially if it's asking for money.
Atheist, //But the idea of free speech is often used by rather disgusting people to justify rather disgusting behaviour.//
That depends upon individual perceptions of ‘disgusting behaviour’. Very often valid criticism is deemed unacceptable - or even disgusting - by those who object to that criticism. It's become an acceptable way to silence the opposition - and that, I think, it what this organisation is about.
That depends upon individual perceptions of ‘disgusting behaviour’. Very often valid criticism is deemed unacceptable - or even disgusting - by those who object to that criticism. It's become an acceptable way to silence the opposition - and that, I think, it what this organisation is about.
Ellipsis; //> B. Sans doute How do you know this? I've been searching for something to back that up and can't find anything. Perhaps you have a link.//
No I haven't nor do I need a "link", I know Toby Young & what he stand for. Ifd you are interested in freedom of speech & what the Union stands for, why not sign for the newsletters & see what it does with its funds, which go to the barristers who have done some good work in defending those who have been treated unfairly.
Do that, or sit on the sidelines carping about something of which you know nothing. I can't be arsed with you anymore.
No I haven't nor do I need a "link", I know Toby Young & what he stand for. Ifd you are interested in freedom of speech & what the Union stands for, why not sign for the newsletters & see what it does with its funds, which go to the barristers who have done some good work in defending those who have been treated unfairly.
Do that, or sit on the sidelines carping about something of which you know nothing. I can't be arsed with you anymore.
What makes the criticism "valid", objectively? Clearly it depends on the topic.
It's also important again to emphasise that the opposition is not silenced by being uninvited to certain events or dismissed from their jobs. "Free Speech" is a defence from the Government, not from the people who can choose not to listen and aren't obliged to entertain you.
It's also important again to emphasise that the opposition is not silenced by being uninvited to certain events or dismissed from their jobs. "Free Speech" is a defence from the Government, not from the people who can choose not to listen and aren't obliged to entertain you.
"Some membership benefits are discretionary, such as pro bono legal advice, pro bono media/PR advice, public support and campaigning, and will be conferred at the discretion of the Free Speech Union, depending on the case and the broader interests of the Union."
What an interesting caveat but i think it answers ellipsis' question... they probably would not defend a hypothetical holocaust denier because it would make them look bad. What a surprise...
What an interesting caveat but i think it answers ellipsis' question... they probably would not defend a hypothetical holocaust denier because it would make them look bad. What a surprise...
//What makes the criticism "valid", objectively? Clearly it depends on the topic.//
Not necessarily. J K Rowling was recently severely vilified for saying that ‘people who menstruate’ are called ‘women’. She’s absolutely right - they are. That is a valid criticism of those who use the phrase - and demand that everyone else uses the phrase - ‘people who menstruate’ in order to avoid offending men who imagine they are women and choose to self-identify as such. I think that is the sort of nonsense this organisation objects to.
Not necessarily. J K Rowling was recently severely vilified for saying that ‘people who menstruate’ are called ‘women’. She’s absolutely right - they are. That is a valid criticism of those who use the phrase - and demand that everyone else uses the phrase - ‘people who menstruate’ in order to avoid offending men who imagine they are women and choose to self-identify as such. I think that is the sort of nonsense this organisation objects to.
For the record, Holocaust denial is not in and of itself a crime in England and Wales:
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