News0 min ago
This Covid Pandemic Has Had Some Winners And Some Losers
$3.7tn – Decrease in earnings of world’s workers during 2020 due to coronavirus crisis, according to research by the International Labour Organisation
$3.9tn – Increase in wealth of world’s billionaires during first ten months of coronavirus crisis, according to research by Oxfam
(from the same page in Private Eye as my last post)
$3.9tn – Increase in wealth of world’s billionaires during first ten months of coronavirus crisis, according to research by Oxfam
(from the same page in Private Eye as my last post)
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// Their wealth creation is a sign of flourishing businesses and generally large numbers of people still being employed. //
Is it though? The number of people on Universal Credit and listed as unemployed in the UK in November 2019 was about 1.7 million; by November 2020 that had more than doubled. In-work Universal Credit claims have also more than doubled over the same period. It's been a similar employment disaster across Europe and the US. I'm not sure why those several million extra unemployed people should console themselves by recalling how Jeff Bezos has more than doubled his fortune in the same period.
Nor is the riposte "if you give poor people money they'll just spend it" any answer. It would probably be a good thing if more people spent money as opposed to hoarding it, given that spending money means buying things, keeping shops open and so on. This isn't an argument for absolute wealth equality either, merely against defending rampant inequality or portraying it as desirable.
In the UK, at least, the present crisis has been greeted by a surprisingly socialist Tory Government, and they deserve some credit for trying to inject billions into the economy via the furlough scheme. Too, despite Universal Credit's myriad problems, at least it exists and has provided some level of help for several million more people that needed it.
Is it though? The number of people on Universal Credit and listed as unemployed in the UK in November 2019 was about 1.7 million; by November 2020 that had more than doubled. In-work Universal Credit claims have also more than doubled over the same period. It's been a similar employment disaster across Europe and the US. I'm not sure why those several million extra unemployed people should console themselves by recalling how Jeff Bezos has more than doubled his fortune in the same period.
Nor is the riposte "if you give poor people money they'll just spend it" any answer. It would probably be a good thing if more people spent money as opposed to hoarding it, given that spending money means buying things, keeping shops open and so on. This isn't an argument for absolute wealth equality either, merely against defending rampant inequality or portraying it as desirable.
In the UK, at least, the present crisis has been greeted by a surprisingly socialist Tory Government, and they deserve some credit for trying to inject billions into the economy via the furlough scheme. Too, despite Universal Credit's myriad problems, at least it exists and has provided some level of help for several million more people that needed it.
//On Benefits? Do you mean the State Pension?
Yes//
And there lies one of today’s principle disingenuities. Lumping the State Pension in with “benefits” is dishonest. Many people who receive a State Pension have made huge contributions to the fund which is used to assess qualification for it (National Insurance). Others have made little or none and many of them receive far more in “pension” than those who have made considerable contributions throughout their working lives. A person earning £100,000pa will pay £5,860 in NI contributions. A person earning nothing will pay nothing. Yet the person on £100k will receive the same or, in many cases, less than the non-earner. There is a need to differentiate the “Pensions” which are received by non-contributors from those received by recipients who have fully funded (and in many cases over-funded) them. There also needs to be a direct relationship established between contributions made and pensions received. Then we shall see who is receiving a pension and who is receiving retirement age benefits. The two are entirely different.
Yes//
And there lies one of today’s principle disingenuities. Lumping the State Pension in with “benefits” is dishonest. Many people who receive a State Pension have made huge contributions to the fund which is used to assess qualification for it (National Insurance). Others have made little or none and many of them receive far more in “pension” than those who have made considerable contributions throughout their working lives. A person earning £100,000pa will pay £5,860 in NI contributions. A person earning nothing will pay nothing. Yet the person on £100k will receive the same or, in many cases, less than the non-earner. There is a need to differentiate the “Pensions” which are received by non-contributors from those received by recipients who have fully funded (and in many cases over-funded) them. There also needs to be a direct relationship established between contributions made and pensions received. Then we shall see who is receiving a pension and who is receiving retirement age benefits. The two are entirely different.
I don’t see the state pension as a benefit, I paid into it all my working life. I get the basic pension, as does my other half.
We also get private pensions, which, again, we’ve paid into all our working lives.
We have been and continue to be far better off during the pandemic...we don’t spent much on fuel as there’s nowhere to go, we don’t go browsing and buy clothes which neither of us need, we don’t eat out as we can’t. All the things we used to spend our money on we can’t do now.
Our children are in a similar position,one of them particularly has made a lot of money because of the job he has. Of the other four, one is working from home, one works for the NHS on the frontline and has had COVID, the other two are customer facing.
We count ourselves lucky.
We also get private pensions, which, again, we’ve paid into all our working lives.
We have been and continue to be far better off during the pandemic...we don’t spent much on fuel as there’s nowhere to go, we don’t go browsing and buy clothes which neither of us need, we don’t eat out as we can’t. All the things we used to spend our money on we can’t do now.
Our children are in a similar position,one of them particularly has made a lot of money because of the job he has. Of the other four, one is working from home, one works for the NHS on the frontline and has had COVID, the other two are customer facing.
We count ourselves lucky.
Fair enough bednobs, I suppose it doesn’t really matter what it’s called.
It’s just a bit galling as neither of us or any of our children have ever been in receipt of what I would class as ‘benefits’. They all had Saturday and holiday jobs and worked their you know what’s off to earn money for things they wanted. The only thing we promised all of them is they would always have a home here, with us, if needed.
It’s just a bit galling as neither of us or any of our children have ever been in receipt of what I would class as ‘benefits’. They all had Saturday and holiday jobs and worked their you know what’s off to earn money for things they wanted. The only thing we promised all of them is they would always have a home here, with us, if needed.
//What you think about the state pension being classed as a benefit has nothing to do with this thread//
I quite agree. I didn’t raise the issue or initially respond to it being raised. I just joined in the debate.
//It comes from taxes and some people pay in more or less. It isn't a savings account.//
I agree again. But neither is it a “pension.” Pension schemes usually involve a direct relationship between contributions made and benefits received. The State “Pension” does not.
//i think it comes from NI. It is a benefit//
It does not come from NI any more than “Vehicle Excise Licence” (aka “Road Tax”) funds roadbuilding. NI Contributions are used solely as a measure for qualifying for the State Pension. Which is rather strange because those who do not qualify (because they have made insufficient NI contributions) go on to qualify for “Pension Credit” (another misleading term). Those recipients usually end up with more “Pension” than those who have fully funded theirs. They also become eligible for further benefits solely on the basis that they receive “Pension Credits”.
Yes I know it’s legally classed as a “benefit.” That being the case, it should not be called a pension. And if it isn't called a pension there would be no confusion between State benefits and properly funded pensions.
However, as you say, we digress.
I quite agree. I didn’t raise the issue or initially respond to it being raised. I just joined in the debate.
//It comes from taxes and some people pay in more or less. It isn't a savings account.//
I agree again. But neither is it a “pension.” Pension schemes usually involve a direct relationship between contributions made and benefits received. The State “Pension” does not.
//i think it comes from NI. It is a benefit//
It does not come from NI any more than “Vehicle Excise Licence” (aka “Road Tax”) funds roadbuilding. NI Contributions are used solely as a measure for qualifying for the State Pension. Which is rather strange because those who do not qualify (because they have made insufficient NI contributions) go on to qualify for “Pension Credit” (another misleading term). Those recipients usually end up with more “Pension” than those who have fully funded theirs. They also become eligible for further benefits solely on the basis that they receive “Pension Credits”.
Yes I know it’s legally classed as a “benefit.” That being the case, it should not be called a pension. And if it isn't called a pension there would be no confusion between State benefits and properly funded pensions.
However, as you say, we digress.
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