Uni Students And Lockdown

[Cloverjo]

Amongst the PM’s ‘great news’ about the roadmap for coming out of lockdown I saw no mention of university students. I know most unis have already said no F2F learning or socialising until September, but come on! These kids should be having the times of their lives - not stuck in their childhood bedrooms or uni rooms peering into a computer all day.
Why not get them out and back to campus so they can salvage something from this miserable year?

[I’ve put this in News because it’s news that students haven’t been mentioned in the news]

[jim360]

It's not like young people are having much luck in terms of having/keeping jobs either, NJ:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56165929

As to whether or not University is necessary for most, why restrict the question to a raw economic calculation? Doesn't society as a whole benefit from being better-educated on average?

[pixie374]

NJ, the problem is, it's competition, so the more people that get a degree, the more others need to as well. It's also become more of a requirement, even when it isn't necessary (like nursing).
I disagree about "Micky Mouse" subjects, because a Degree should be about the level attained, like with GCSEs and A Levels. So, in theory, a degree in media studies "should be" the same qualification as a degree in Maths (or whatever). Anyway, we need people with different strengths and skills, there is no point in the entire country having a degree in English and no plumbers.

[Untitled]

//Only about 10% to 15% of positions in this country actually need a degree level education in order to be effective in the job.//

May well be true but most employers now expect a degree regardless... it is not the fault of the younger generation that most of the job market now expects them to have degrees. If employers did not do so I imagine most young people would not bother going to university.

Universities really have not covered themselves in glory during this pandemic... their priority seems to be preventing people from asking for their money back rather than on providing quality education...

[Untitled]

Yet another field in which previous generations had it better and continue to gloat about their "hard-earned" success

[New Judge]

//Yet another field in which previous generations had it better and continue to gloat about their "hard-earned" success//

Fifty years or so ago only about 7 to 10% of people went to University. It was free to students and affordable to the country because the numbers were sufficiently low. Far from "having it better", people from that generation had little access to University education. Those who did went there because they needed it for their chosen career (medicine, law, etc.). Further than that, they were only admitted if they had achieved decent 'A' Level results. Employers require a degree now because there is no effective way of determining whether an applicant has received a decent enough secondary education. Encouraging half the nation's young people to undertake what, for about 80% of them, will be a worthless exercise taking three years of their lives is simple folly - as many of them find out to their cost.

"...there is no point in the entire country having a degree in English and no plumbers.//

Indeed not. And you don't need a degree to become a plumber.

[Untitled]

Fewer people went to university in the past because fewer people needed to... and if you did it was based on academic selection and your place was funded. If you did not go it was still quite possible to make a good a career. Now the vast majority of employers expect degrees regardless of if they are actually necessary or not. That is not the fault of the people who go, they are responding to the demands of the job market.

[jno]

rockyraccoon, I also know somebody like that. Didn't get a proper job till she was 50. I often feel like giving her a good kicking, but I suppose if people want to waste their lives.

[Jackdaw33]

//So, in theory, a degree in media studies "should be" the same qualification as a degree in Maths (or whatever).\\

Now you're having a laugh. Degrees should be all about academic rigour.

[New Judge]

//That is not the fault of the people who go, they are responding to the demands of the job market.//

I disagree. I believe it is the fault of the education system. It now takes until age 21 for many people to attain a decent level of secondary education (for that's all many degrees amount to). Some even struggle with that because they are not very academically capable but they are persuaded to go to University nonetheless. Consequently employers are unable to rely on an 18 year old being particularly well educated. Many of that age are but they are disadvantaged because they are almost compelled to take a degree course when the work they want to do really needs just a couple of decent 'A' Levels.

[pixie374]

That was my point, nj. At least, not yet. Nurses (newly qualified) barely need a diploma, let alone the degree they need now.
I actively discouraged my children from university- as they can earn and get paid for further qualifications while actually working. Few degrees really are worth £27-£36k.

[pixie374]

Jackdaw, yes. So a "degree" level, should be the same, no matter what subject. Personally, I would probably find a maths degree easier than media studies. But- they should be the same level.

[Untitled]

//I disagree. I believe it is the fault of the education system.//

Then it still isn't the fault of people who go is it.

[New Judge]

I don't think I ever suggested it was.

It doesn't really matter whose fault it is - the country is wasting three years of its youth employment and those involved are wasting three years when they could be earning money (instead of racking up debt).

[Untitled]

Ah... in that case I think we are in agreement. The current expectation that most people go to university is doing immense harm both to higher education itself and the people who attend.

[brainiac]

Far too many people going to far too many universities. There are now over 130, and perfectly good polytechnics (remember them?) have been turned into fourth-rate universities. Would you want any sort of degree from The University of East London, or The University of Chichester? No, me neither.

[Ellipsis]

Hey, guess what. The jobs now aren't the same as the jobs 50 years ago.

That said, I'm from the generation where bright, poor kids went to university with a grant - and nobody paid tuition fees except the overseas students. It does seem a shame nowadays that bright, poor kids pay the same as dim, rich kids.

[Peter Pedant]

// My advice would have been to take a a year studying until they can return fulltime//

mine was

and their indulgent parents said: yeah and do what? [sort of like the typical ABer - do wot den?) - so they got sort of stuck in their rooms eeva way

[Peter Pedant]

// That said, I'm from the generation where bright, poor kids went to university with a grant -//

and no one paid fees - yeah your local authority did actually ( pay fees for you)

an fings aint what they used to be... in your generation the majorty of kids darn da sink comp left wivvart enyfing
O levels for around 10% - and A 5% - of the number of kids
At our comp 500 - the A levels two years numbered under 50 ( one form). Traditionally one went to oxbridge - I was the one for 1968

1997 - Bliar projected 50% would. should nay MUST go to College and it was obvious the grant system wdnt stand it

In my sector of Bogsville - over thirty yearn, I thought I cd get 25 of the fifty households froo college. One that is per household. I am running at five. Someone is going but not from Bogsville