What Is The Real Death Figure For Covid?

[10ClarionSt]

This question was the main headline on the front of the Daily Mail on Saturday, Feb 27th followed up by a 4-page feature inside. Relatives of some dead people are angry because they say their deceased relative didn't have Covid but it appears on their death certificate. Some say they had tested negative. So what is the real figure? Users of this website will already know that I think the figures are lies, exaggeration and alarmist. They are though, aren't they?

[woofgang]

bobbisox "Don't know the answer but it will no doubt 'save money' by not having post mortems ( just a thought)"

If there is a risk that the dead person had covid, then PM's are even more dangerous for the person doing it, also for many falilies, the thought of a PM is distressing, may be difficult given their religion.

I think we may be wandering from the point here.... (what? on Ab? never!)
I think that there are two hares running.
Its usually/often the case that the cause of death is broadly known to the family. They know their loved one is terminally unwell or at least are aware that death is a likely outcome, or the end is a sudden one but the cause is clear. In such cases I am genuinely unsure why it should be upsetting to the family if covid is added provided this is not for criminal reasons or it would besmirch the persons reputation and provided that the real cause of death is mentioned. We also know that causes of death on death certificates are not wonderfully accurate anyway. When my husband died, my lovely GP actually told me what she would put on the cert and asked if it was acceptable.

Hare two is Covid and cause of death and again yes we know that cause of death on death certs is not accurate in this respect which is why it was changed to reflect this and is now death within 28 days of a positive test....more objective but no guarantee of accuracy either.

But IT DOESN'T MATTER because excess deaths are excess deaths, the number is huge and I for one doubt that it was done by russian spies with poisoned umbrellas

[douglas9401]

"Stupid people will remain stupid."

And alive, don't forget that.
If the bug has the terminally doltish in mind how come one still meets so many of them about the place?

[teacake44]

It appears to some that whatever is put on the death certificate doesn't really matter, an excess death is an excess death?
Well If a member of my family became ill last March, and needed treatment, but didn't get it, and died, due to not getting it, and otherwise would have lived, then I would object to covid being put on the DC. to me that would be a cover up for neglect.

[Peter Pedant]

// It appears to some that whatever is put on the death certificate doesn't really matter, an excess death is an excess death?//

yes exactly - and some are doctors and statisticians

DCs are known to be er inaccurate

and anyway havent we agreed it is in xs of 100 000?
(nope because this is AB)

[Sqad]

teacake.....death due to Covid would only be put on the DC if he/she had returned a positive Covid test within the previous 28 days.
If they had never had a positive Covid then the cause of death would be declared as suggested by the attending doctor.

[Peter Pedant]

// Woofie. Our friend is quite upset that Covid is on his father's death certificate because it's a lie. I would be too.//

I wouldnt - wasnt. he is dead ( my dad that is) and jsut get on with the funeral.

one neighbour, I said that I dunno why the coroner is taking such a time on doing his stuff - March to November. No reason I exploded for such slowness, fatigue and lassitude ( in the living that is!)

and HE said oh I do: I complained about a perceived lack of care

( you know 95 1/2 and demented) and |I said 'oh'

and so you know reader, he never got up and said, My name is Lazarus - er so far

[Peter Pedant]

sqad I dont think that is the point

if it is positive - then they may still not die FROM covid but yet die WITH it. I dont have a great view about any of this
[jesuits hit death certification and start splitting hairs....]

[teacake44]

That's the way it should work Sqad., but I'm sure Matt Hancock had to reduce the covid figure last year by many thousands after complaints that covid was being used on DCs, when it wasn't?

[Sqad]

teacake.....lol.maybe..maybe!

[bednobs]

before the advent of mass testing capability, a lot of guesswork was being done on cause of death

[woofgang]

Teacake, yes the way of calculating was changed but it still isn't accurate, just that the basis for the counting is more objective. As CSLewis says regarding what might have been except for covid "
“To know what would have happened, child? said Aslan. No. Nobody is ever told that.”

[woofgang]

Avatar Image teacake44 That's the way it should work Sqad., but I'm sure Matt Hancock had to reduce the covid figure last year by many thousands after complaints that covid was being used on DCs, when it wasn't

Makes no difference to excess deaths though.....But I think you know this.....

[teacake44]

So back to square one then Woof, excess figures/ deaths due to lack of treatment??

[eve1974]

@. Rowanwitch 12:35 Agree!

[woofgang]

PP "// Woofie. Our friend is quite upset that Covid is on his father's death certificate because it's a lie. I would be too.//

I wouldnt - wasnt. he is dead ( my dad that is) and jsut get on with the funeral. "

I wouldn't/wasn't either. I knew it was only going one way and not the good way. In my case there were sensitivities as I might have wanted to make a complaint which the GP knew (and I knew) was provable and had merit, however my husband had specifically told me not to and for perhaps the only time in our relationship I did as I was asked.

[Peter Pedant]

yes - no woof

I cant think of many cases where the award for negligence is - - - deserved
I can think of a lot where some poor junior has been scape-goated but that of course is a personal opinion

[ heavily biassed by the ebola cases where the entity responsible was the PHLS but it is not a doctor so the GMC screwed two passers by - who had medical degrees]

[woofgang]

oh this would have been deserved.....the GP in question was removed from their post over another cock up but I had no hand in it.

[Peter Pedant]

yeah but no but
was the outcome different?

[Peter Pedant]

that is why the exxcess death calc works:
you can find out that the antibody test is water based
or voodoo works better than some serum tests

and the results are not changed ( from xs death that is)

[woofgang]

PP "yeah but no but
was the outcome different?"

second time I have used this one today
""To know what would have happened, child?" said Aslan. "No. Nobody is ever told that."