Palestine Vs Israel

[Sven666]

Boiling it down.

Disregard historic land ownership rights. That's another debate.
Let's get to the heart of the matter – why is Israel bombing Palestine and why is Palestine bombing Israel?

Q1. Are the Israelis bombing Palestine because they're Muslims?
A1. No. They are bombing Palestine (or more accurately, Hamas) to defend themselves from rocket attacks.

Q2. Are the Palestinians (or more accurately, Hamas) bombing Israel because they're Jewish?
A2. Yes.

Hamas' stated aim as a political entity is to obliterate the state of Israel from the Earth and with it, every Jewish person on the planet.

Given the above – which is unequivocally, demonstrably and provably true – why would anyone with a moral compass that actually functioned correctly defend the actions of Hamas?

[Theland]

I agree with you but qualify my answer with the observation that the Israeli government has aroused the ire of the Palestinians by the rough treatment handed out to them.
Out of control policing, little funding for Palestinian areas.
The Israelis have right on their side but should treat the Palestinians with more humanity.

[Sven666]

I think it's prudent to separate the Palestinians from Hamas.

As such, I agree that the Palestinians should be treated fairly. Unfortunately, their political overlords are terrorists...

[Sunk]

Q1 - No.
Q2. No.

// Disregard historic land ownership rights //
You can’t really do that in a dispute about territory.

The UN, rightly or wrongly, gave Israel land in 1948. But that is not what this conflict is about. The occupied territory, is land which Israel took as a spoil of the 6 day war in 1967, and keeps to this day. There is no UN mandate for Israel to have this land, they are there illegally.

[Sven666]

Sunk

You do know that the Jews have been there since at least 1500 BC?

[Sven666]

Sunk

Egyptian writings put the Jews in Jerusalem as far back as 2500 BC. Surely you're not trying to claim that the Jews don't have a historic claim on the land? Given that Mohammed was born in circa 570 AD, that gives the Jews around 3000 years worth of land claim....

[Theland]

Sunk - When the West Bank was part of Jordan pre 1967, they could have created a Palestinian state but didn't.
Israel can't return the land as strategically it is important for defence.

[Sven666]

Sunk

But I specifically wanted to disregard history and ask why right now, Hamas (a Muslim terrorist organisation) was deliberately bombing Israel.

[Sunk]

Sven666

Er, The Jews left Israel in 750BC.
Israel can return the occupied territories which it illegally has annexed, but chooses not to. It may be of strategic importance, but it isn’t theirs - it is stolen, and recognised as stolen by the UN.

[Sunk]

The israelis illegally occupy land, so the Palestinians fire rockets to tell them to leave. They are crude point and shoot weapons and are unguided, which means they are more symbolic rather than destructive.

The present conflict arose when one such rocket was fired on the 15th April. It landed in an empty field causing no damage, and did not kill or injure anyone.
Israel’s response was an aerial bombardment which has killed hundreds of people, destroyed $millions of property.

Why did Israel make such a disproportionate response now? Well, there has been an inconclusive election that has left Likud without a majority, and Netanyahu is currently in Court facing corruption and fraud charges. Nothing like a good war to distract from domestic problems.

[ToraToraTora]

"Given the above – which is unequivocally, demonstrably and provably true – why would anyone with a moral compass that actually functioned correctly defend the actions of Hamas?" - good point, it's the lefty way to support terrorists generally.

[ToraToraTora]

sunk: "The israelis illegally occupy land, so the Palestinians fire rockets to tell them to leave. They are crude point and shoot weapons and are unguided, which means they are more symbolic rather than destructive." - and they know that they will have it rained back on them x1000, yet they still do it. How thick are they?

[Sunk]

Tora,
Terrorist groups (I mean freedom fighters) such as Irgun, Haganah and Etzel bombed the previous occupiers out and took the country, so perhaps Hamas are inspired by their success?

[ToraToraTora]

...how is that working out for them sunk?

[Sunk]

Tora,
Menachem Begin waited 37 years to transform from terrorist leader to Prime Minister.
The Palestinians are playing a long game. The odds are massively against them, but such is the nature of territorial disputes, giving up is not usually an option.

[ToraToraTora]

sunk: "The odds are massively against them, but such is the nature of territorial disputes, giving up is not usually an option." - for once I agree, why not try something else? Lobbing penny bangers over the fence ain't working is it?

[Theland]

Sunk, Returning to the land was a fulfillment of bible prophecy, and kicking out the British was part of that.
The Jews were returning to their rightful home after thousands of years. They bought most of the land from Arab Effendis at exorbitant prices.

[naomi24]

Theland, they didn’t buy most if the land at any price. If they had families wouldn’t have ended up poverty stricken and living in cardboard boxes in foreign countries.

[Sunk]

Theland,

A 2000 year old prophesy justifies it ?

That probably proves the Bible is the work of Satan rather than the word of God.

[Untitled]

I don't think anyone could possibly defend Hamas... they are an evil and corrupt organisation...

How did Israel bombing gaza defend it? It will not prevent further attacks... and it will cause more vengeful Palestinians to join Hamas while its leaders relax in luxury abroad... as I have pointed out numerous times Hamas wants Israel to bomb gaza so that more footsoldiers are created and their lucrative war keeps going... So why do what your enemy wants you to do? Why not just rely on the iron dome defences and ignore the few missiles that do get through? All these horrible counter measures do is guarantee more missiles in future...

[Sunk]

Untitled,
The Conflict suits both sides. Israel’s disproportionate retaliation was over a rocket that landed in an empty field, causing no damage, deaths or injury.

// The rocket, which was fired as Israel’s Independence Day came to an end, struck a field northeast of Gaza, causing neither injury nor damage. //

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-strikes-hamas-targets-after-gaza-rocket-fire/

Both sides have different objectives, and both are claiming victory.