Here Is Proof, Proof, That Vaccinations ...

[sunny-dave]

...........are useless. If they do the job they're supposed to, why is there such a big increase in positive tests? Admit it; they don't serve any purpose do they?

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[ToraToraTora]

SD: "...........are useless. If they do the job they're supposed to, why is there such a big increase in positive tests" - the vax stops it killing you, it doesn't stop it being contracted. The body merely has a much stronger effective immune system that fights it off quicker and more effectively. Never had you down as a Tin Hatter Dave.

[NeedToKnowPlease]

Apparently he's being facetious.

[ToraToraTora]

SD, look at this graph it's the number of cases
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases
Note how there is a sharp rise on the right, now look at this one for death, it's very flat on the right.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths
See? That means the link between those having it and those dying with it is broken. Most of those that die will have been vaccinated, because most of us have been vaccinated. Now remember at the start they said things like the vaccine is 95% effective, well it's the few that it is not effective for that are dying. The vaccine is working if you can't see that then you either don't want to or you don't have the intellect.

[Sqad]

TTT

///why is there such a big increase in positive tests" ////

Cus only half the population are fully vaccinated.
Cus there may be another variant starting to perform.
Cus too many people have already decided that restrictions are not for them.
Cus more tests are being done.

[bobbinwales]

Tora, I think that was dave's point.
Agree with sqad but would add a lot more social mixing, especially groups watching the football in bars and ignoring social distancing and masks while shouting in each others faces.
The testing done for ALL school children (twice a week?) and the freely available Lateral Flow tests handed out in city centres is bound to identify lots of posative cases compared to say May when they would generally have been unnoticed if assymtomatic

[bobbinwales]

Sorry sqad, your 3rd point covered the social restrictions

[davebro]

The vax don't stop you getting covid they stop it harming you (in most cases). Eventually a large % of us will have or will have had covid infection, so almost all hospital admissions and deaths will be of people testing positive even though the virus played no part in their illness or death.
The only figure you can truly rely is deaths where the virus was the primary cause - I think that's presently very low.

[ToraToraTora]

bobinwales: "Tora, I think that was dave's point." - so what's with the Tin Hatter headline?

[ToraToraTora]

we should stop most testing, Covid is no more relevant than the common cold.

[bobbinwales]

Being vaccinnated also reduces the chances of you infecting someone also davebro.
Its not just current deaths though davebro, as theres a timelag of a few weeks between infections, admissions and deaths. Even Borris thinks infections will double to 50000 a day soon so deaths are likely to rise abit

[bobbinwales]

I thought sunny dave had covered that at 22:54 Tora.

[davebro]

yes - deaths within 28 days of a positive test WILL rise as there are more positive tests but that doesn't mean that covid was the cause of those deaths.

[Sqad]

Well here goes:

If the Government allows 50,000 new cases of Covid to be unrestricted by public health measures, then I guarantee that there will be a new variant unimpressed by present vaccines , dominant before Christmas 2021.

I hope I am wrong.

[davebro]

We should stop all testing, continue vaxing - and re-vaxing. And only issue stats for deaths where covid is positively identified as the primary cause of death. I think that would put a proper perspective on the situation.

[bobbinwales]

Stopping all testing and collecting data is ridiculous and wont happen as SAGE needs to know whats happening, although testing will be scaled down for example school testing will stop in holidays. Maybe the reporting should get less headlines or maybe you could just look away now.

[THECORBYLOON]

As there is a lag between infection and death, if all testing were to stop but hospital admissions or deaths were increasing, how would authorities know how many further similar cases were likely and plan accordingly?

[davebro]

At the moment the only figures we get that are worth looking at are the excess death above the average - and they aren't.

[rowanwitch]

Switching to large random sample testing would be better as at the moment you probably have a smallish group of people who are doing regular tests because they can, still taking precautions, and another group who wouldn't test even if they had symptoms because a positive test, well, it would get in the way of their normal activities. I would suggest current positive test levels are not reflecting incidence in the population. Not sure if numbers of test results coming in from the BAME sectors is in proportion either.

[jim360]

// At the moment the only figures we get that are worth looking at are the excess death above the average - and they aren't. //

This is true, and welcome news, but there's still the possibility of future trends breaking this pattern. For example, hospitalisations are on the rise, albeit slowly. A couple of weeks ago I made the prediction that total hospital cases would not exceed 2000 by the end of June, which thankfully came true, but it turned out rather closer than I'd have liked. Still, it seems reasonable to conclude that, for now, vaccination is making a significant difference.

https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/find/answer/12913933/

[roslyn251254]

squad..Cus only half the population are fully vaccinated.

45.3 out of 66.6 million is way more than half