You Just Can't Win Can You...........

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/england-defender-tyrone-mings-hits-out-at-home-secretary-priti-patel-after-players-subject-to-racist-abuse-12354567
Everyone condemns the abuse after the game including the HomeSec. Yet that's not good enough because she correctly condemned the kneeling cobras as "gesture politics". Some footballers got abused after missing penalties, she gets vile sexual and racist abuse every day and she's the bad guy! Unbelievable!

[dannyk13]

Ellipsis, I am talking about politics entering sport, not about politicians making comments.

[Ellipsis]

Danny, when sports people are persistently racially abused, what do you think they should do about it? It's not "politics", it's their daily life that's lived in the public gaze.

No matter what you think they should do about it, what they've chosen to do about it, after many years, is take the knee for a few seconds before the game.

[naomi24]

Ellipsis, //Why would they want that, if they didn't consider it to be the right thing themselves?//

I've told you. Mrs Bucket has a lot of followers.

[Ellipsis]

That's not a why.

[royfromaus]

Why couldn't they come up with their own anti racism gesture so it couldn't be mistaken for the ludicrous BLM aims?

[vulcan42]

Ellipsis, what do you think that taking the knee, a ridiculous expression by the way, what's wrong with kneeling, has done or is doing to eradicate racism in sport? What positive affect has it achieved?

[drmorgans]

Hasn't it achieved a level of discussion about the abuse that players are subjected to? Some understanding of the range and sort of abuse that sportsman (and others) receive on social media?

[Ellipsis]

> Why couldn't they come up with their own anti racism gesture so it couldn't be mistaken for the ludicrous BLM aims?

BLM does not "own" taking the knee. The BLM political campaign nicked its name from the Black Lives Matter movement and it nicked taking the knee from way before that, possibly Martin Luther King, possibly much earlier.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1749B/production/_118878359_gettyimages-517292466.jpg

> What positive affect has it achieved?

Give it time.

[vulcan42]

If it's been around for over sixty years, it hasn't achieved very much if your answer is "give it time". I suggest it's a gesture that is feeding racism rather than eradicating it.

[ToraToraTora]

11:54, all band wagon leapers.

[ToraToraTora]

elipsis: "The lot of them? OK. By labelling them as "band wagon leapers", do I take it that means you think they don't actually believe in the cause, they just want to profit from it in some way? " - well a mixture of being seen down with the current big thing and fear of being labelled if they don't.

[ToraToraTora]

elipsis: //> there are an awful lot of people who want to be seen to be doing what the woke consider to be the right thing

Why would they want that, if they didn't consider it to be the right thing themselves? // - did you read that back? most people started smoking because of peer pressure, this is the same. The whole world is full of weak minded fools who want something to follow.

[Ellipsis]

> I suggest it's a gesture that is feeding racism rather than eradicating it.

When the England players take the knee to show their support for each other and against racism, how does that feed racism?

[ToraToraTora]

ellipsis: "Danny, when sports people are persistently racially abused, what do you think they should do about it? " - well that's a whole other debating issue but broadly, the clubs and the referees need to put there own house in order. Eg first sign of racism, game suspended for 15 mins. 2nd, abandon game. It'll happen a couple of times then the crowd will police themselves as we have been doing in Rugby for ever. You won't hear a racist comment at a rugby match, from the local pub side to England at Twickers. It's time Soccer came of age.

[naomi24]

Ellipsis, what do you think would happen if just one of those footballers said he wasn’t going to ‘take the knee’?

[ToraToraTora]

cue the contrarians trawling the net for racism in Rugby! PMSL!

[Untitled]

"I do think there are an awful lot of people who want to be seen to be doing what the woke consider to be the right thing. Band wagon leapers abound."

Given that "woke" people are always getting moaned at for being "woke", I think it far more likely that they do these things because they think it's right...

Being "anti-woke" on the other hand seems to be largely reactionary... I can't for the life of me figure out what the anti-woke are in favour of, just that they have an extreme dislike of "wokeness", whereever it may be... (or, more likely, the people who express woke ideas - minorities and their allies). It's the same thing as people calling themselves anti-PC without actually standing for anything... it's not a substitute for thinking, but people treat it like that.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "I can't for the life of me figure out what the anti-woke are in favour of" - Common sense, possibly??

[Untitled]

Everyone thinks they are in favour of common sense Tora... to say so doesn't mean anything.

[Ellipsis]

> Ellipsis, what do you think would happen if just one of those footballers said he wasn’t going to ‘take the knee’?

You mean like Wilfried Zaha?