Anti-Vaxxer Rally…Creepy?

[sp1814]

When anti-vaxxer rallies begin to look like
The Nuremberg Rally, should we be concerned:
https://twitter.com/marclister3k/status/1418907451190038533?s=21

If not, why not?

[pixie374]

Data for what, bobbin? That the vaccine minimises symptoms? Isn't that the whole point?
Do you have data to show that vaccinated people behave differently or are more careful? Are you sure they don't actually feel safer now?

[Atheist]

Nailit, you are showing yourself as a rather know-it-all sort of person.
"Dont tell lies Atheist. Its not a minority. Its a majority.
Dont tell me that youve had the jab to protect me!!
Youve had it to protect yourself.
Theres not one person on here who has been vaxxed to protect others."

Firstly you accuse me of lying because you disagree with an opinion of mine.
Then you question my motivation for being vaccinated.
Then you claim that no-one here cares about others.

My main motivation to be vaccinated is to protect me, but I would do it even if it did not protect me, but only others. Some people do care about others' welfare (perhaps we lucky few who have not had lives full of abuse and misfortune).
Your third claim is a result of your dismal view of human nature.

[pixie374]

20:07, atheist, I didn't say more of a risk to others (although that would make sense), but to nailit, than he is to you.
If you are more likely to not notice you have covid... you are also more likely to pass it on without realising. You may do a daily test of course.

[Atheist]

Pixie, I've said that I continue to mask and distance as I have done ever since this started. Why does vaccine make me more dangerous?

[anneasquith]

We should spend no more of our time with anyone who refuses the vaccines. Come Monday morning if anyone has refused the vaccine thats note,. They could be offered it at 6 monthly periods . No mind changing in that 6 month period .

[pixie374]

Atheist, if you do get covid- you are less likely to feel ill, or realise you have it now.
Taking away symptoms of an illness, does have the disadvantage that you may not realise you have it- and will spread it to other people.

[sp1814]

Okay nailit - if you’re not going to get jabbed…why?

Do you not trust the jab?

Do you think you’re better off taking your chances unvaccinated?

If so - apart from personal experience, have you read up on case histories, checked patient outcomes and studied documented evidence from patient studies?

[pixie374]

Also, if masking and distancing were enough to not pass on covid- why is anyone isolating?

[bobbinwales]

//Taking away symptoms of an illness, does have the disadvantage that you may not realise you have it- and will spread it to other people.//
By your logic then maybe we should then BAN the vaccinnated from going to clubs, pubs etc and leave it to the unvaccinnated to party

[pixie374]

If you call that "logic", that's your problem, not mine.

[237SJ]

I don't know why I bothered answering really.

[pixie374]

It's not a big deal, 237, unless you persuade someone into it, who dies, or ends up in hospital...

[Atheist]

I agree, 237SJ.
Everyone here has their view and hardly anyone changes their view because other people explain to them that they should. In fact I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone say, "Oh, that's a good point; I'd better re-think my position."
Naomi may, of course, correct me if I am wrong.

[bobbinwales]

Pixie your the one that said //You are actually more likely to spread it, vaccinated, as you are more likely to have no or few symptoms// as an argument against vaccinnes.
Perhaps you dont understand the meaning of 'logic' so I'll let you off

[pixie374]

I've done exactly that a few times on here, atheist.
Bobbin, I am definitely not arguing against vaccines, but about pushing others into making medical choices. Neither did I say anything about unvaccinated people being safe to party, or vaccinated people being kept in. You made all that up- only the quote you gave, was accurate, as I have already explained.

[237SJ]

I couldn't care less whether anyone agrees with me or not but you put your opinion on here and it's like talking into the ether and you are ignored. A waste of time really.

[jim360]

// Ive NEVER been asked to Vaxx for other
Never been asked to vaxx for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, flu etc to protect others so why now?

I dont take a bloody vax to protect others..its unheard of. //

Just to be clear, just because you personally didn't hear of it doesn't mean that this hasn't been a part of vaccination. It even has a name -- herd immunity, the idea that if enough people are vaccinated then they not only protect themselves, but also those who aren't vaccinated, because the opportunity for a disease to spread is severely reduced (as there are fewer unvaccinated people in the "herd", so they meet each other less often).

Moreover, because vaccines are never 100% effective, in a society with too few people vaccinated, the chances of failure in the community increase if the disease is able to spread freely. Not every vaccinated person will get sick in this scenario, but enough will to cause a problem if there's no community protection.

Now, you are welcome not to care about any of this. On the other hand, pretending that this is a new idea, or that the state of one person's health has no impact on those around them, is simply false. The freedom is in whether or not you care about this fact, rather than the fact itself.

As to the specific case of Covid, in such a large vaccination programme, it is sadly inevitable that some patients will suffer severe adverse reactions, or even death, as a result. Nevertheless, such adverse events are extremely rare. Severe allergic reactions (not necessarily leading to death) or blood clotting events occur in something around 10 vaccinations per million -- most of these people, however, recover. I'm not able to find any statistics, but as far as I can tell the number of people who have died specifically as a reaction to the vaccine is in the order of a hundred. If anyone has a better source that is clearer, then please share it.

But, as an absolute risk, this means that your chances of dying from the vaccination are around 200/2 billion, which is to say about 0.00001%. On the other hand, Covid is fatal in something like 0.5% of all cases. It is not difficult to see which is more dangerous.

[pixie374]

I answered you... that seems to have changed, though. When I did nursing, they wanted proof of BCG, and most people had a scar to show. I had a daisy stamp and no scar, so they asked for a blood test, which I refused, because I knew what the results would be.
It went no further, because nobody really wants to take responsibility for force.

[jim360]

// Also, if masking and distancing were enough to not pass on covid- why is anyone isolating? //

There's never been a claim that either masking or social distancing, or even both together, are "enough" to stop passing on Covid. On the other hand, both of these, especially in combination, greatly reduce the chances of doing so. And, of course, isolation altogether is more effective still, reducing the chances of spreading Covid to (virtually) zero.

[pixie374]

I think you're missing the point, jim- and I'm speaking as a pro-vaxer. For a healthy person to risk death, for something they are likely never to get- is a gamble and a choice. To die from a natural illness, is a different risk. "Unlikely" is no comfort to those who die. It's an individual effect and has to be an individual choice.
Personally, I would like everyone to get vaccinated- but this kind of bullying... is unreasonable.