Adele Upsets The Genderless Brits...

[naomi24]

//Adele is accused of being 'anti-trans' after telling genderless BRITs she 'loves being a FEMALE artist' but legions of fans and PR experts praise her for 'standing up for women' during prime time slot on super-woke ITV//

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10493529/Adeles-snub-virtue-signalling-record-label-chiefs-woke-LA.html

Good for her. Oops! Maybe I shouldn't have said that.

[jim360]

Even here it's increasingly common. I could, for example, point to the very article we are discussing, where you'll note that the article refers to the transgender teacher as "she". And the DM is hardly a news outlet known for its advocacy of transgender issues.

But the reference to other cultures serves merely to illustrate that the human experience is more diverse than some people give it credit for.

[pixie374]

We know that is required at the moment lol. I am imagining you have been aware of this issue as long as I have- and can see the backlash is only just beginning.
You may not like it, but I am sure you can see that the more that gets publicised, the more people are realising what is actually happening.
Your suggestions that we are moving that way- are so dishonest, in 5 years max, we will be on the way back.

[jim360]

Time alone will tell whether you're correct. But it's common for changes in society to proceed far from smoothly, so the mere fact of a backlash doesn't mean much. In general society has moved towards being more accepting and tolerant of diversity, rather than less. I don't see why acceptance of transgender people will be any different in the long run. In many ways, the "backlash" is extremely related to, and motivated by, similar concerns to those expressed against gay rights. There are differences of course, but there are also far too many similarities for comfort.

Also, one other thing: will you stop with these accusations of dishonesty? If nothing else, it makes your assertion that you're approaching these discussions in good faith smack of insincerity. I may very well be wrong, and am probably more so than I care to admit, but I don't do dishonesty, especially when it comes to issues I care about.

[pixie374]

No jim, because everything you claim on this subject is dishonest. It's what you would like to be true, not what is true.
Put it this way- If I cover myself in black shoe polish, attempt a Jamaican accent and tell some black people they have to fully accept that I am really black...
Would you find that acceptable? If not,why is it ok if only women are the targets?
If you do want suggestions of dishonesty... start being honest.

[Mamyalynne]

Whoa, if anyone wants Adele - we're down the Pub with a load of people conversing nicely.

[pixie374]

And- acceptance of transgender is backwards. It is against progress and diversity. Their aim is to use stereotypes, rather than just accepting people are different. To huge costs.
Few people want to go backwards now.

[jim360]

// No jim, because everything you claim on this subject is dishonest. It's what you would like to be true, not what is true. //

Firstly, you aren't the arbiter of what is or is not dishonest, so stop setting yourself up so. Secondly, if your assertion is merely that I'm being dishonest to *myself*, then, fair enough, feel free to continue believing that, but what certainly is true is that I'm presenting what I genuinely think, neither more nor less, which is also what I imagine everybody else in this debate has done. In any case, it's a waste of time in a discussion to continually undercut the other person's motives and honesty. You say what you think, I say what I think, we disagree, let us leave it at that without impugning each other's character. Deal?

[pixie374]

//Firstly, you aren't the arbiter of what is or is not dishonest, //

Obviously! Lol. Thankfully, we have science for that.

[pixie374]

Yes. Deal x

[jim360]

It's also increasingly common in scientific and medical circles to recognise the validity of transgender identities. Which, presumably, you also know well.

[pixie374]

Would you like to continue, or have we stopped? X

[naomi24]

//It's also increasingly common in scientific and medical circles to recognise the validity of transgender identities//

Which is not to say that science and medicine are recognising the validity of transgender identities. You choose your words carefully, Jim - as always.

[roadman]

people upset thats bit of a non story trans people are proud to be trans some men are proud to be men why cant a woman be proud to be a woman lol this is a non story anything to squeeze a lemon old daily fail

[naomi24]

I think you mean the Daily Mail. They're not the only news source reporting it.

[jim360]

// Which is not to say that science and medicine are recognising the validity of transgender identities. //

Then I'll say that too. Since gender identities are tied to social and cultural norms, it stands to reason that there's a limit to what pure biology can tell you about trans people, but it's still an active topic of research and it's pretty obvious which way the wind is blowing.

As to medical circles, for example "gender dysphoria" is now used, as opposed to "gender identity disorder", as a recognition that having a mismatch between one's gender identity and one's assigned sex is merely different, as opposed to in some sense a problem.

[Mozz71]

Blown up to make a story out of something not storyworthy. British press in a nutshell.

[roadman]

guess its a respect thing you either have it or you dont

[naomi24]

Jim, //Then I'll say that too. //

Good. Anything less has the propensity to mislead ....

[jim360]

I certainly wouldn't wish to mislead anyone. Although even if I did so wish I am not sure why I'd bother, since I'm obviously so transparent. But there we are.