Lia Thomas - Again. Are Sports Bodies Tying Themselves In Knots In Not Wanting To Offend The Tg Minority?

[Deskdiary]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10636707/DAN-WOOTTON-world-allows-trans-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-compete-womens-sport-finished.html

NCAA Ranking as a man - 554th.

NCAA Ranking as a 'woman' - 1st.

'She' beat Emma Weyant, a silver medalist in Tokyo, by 1.75 seconds, and if the report I read at the weekend is true, 'she' appeared to be holding-back, presumably to avoid the gap being even greater as it would make the absurdity of the situation even more absurd.

The gold in Tokyo was won by 0.68 seconds ahead of Weyant, so if Thomas had gone to the Olympics, 'she' would most likely be the Olympic champion.

Lia Thomas is taking the place of a proper woman.

Sharon Davis has commented:

"She has greater upper-body strength and significantly more muscle mass than a woman of the same weight and height. She has a greater lung capacity, better VO2 uptake, different bone density, she is nearly 6ft 4in tall and has large hands and feet that act like paddles."

And a teammate has commented:

"...that they feel ‘awkward’ sharing a locker room with her because ‘Lia still has male body parts [by which I take they mean a penis] and is still attracted to women".

Why are sporting bodies allowing this absurdity to continue at the expense of women athletes?

[pixie374]

Rubbish, Jim. You are misrepresenting the most. And, you know that.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-56007728

[jim360]

If you read the original guidance, rather than a media-reported version of it that, for whatever reason, missed the key point, then you'd see that it reflected the point I was making. Words like "mother" etc weren't banned. Any organisation that sought explicitly to do so would not have my support.

[pixie374]

Not banned, just changed. You yourself are using "she" to represent a male, and complaining if others don't. Let's not pretend nobody is trying to change our language.

[jim360]

Words change meaning surprisingly often, and people can certainly suggest new meanings; although trying to enforce such a change is, at the very least, not often a successful approach. Whether such a change sticks or not will be a matter of consensus.

[pixie374]

It still doesn't change the facts though, so it's just dishonest. There is little point in generously allowing women to call themselves women, she, her, mother, sister, etc... if, at the same time, you are claiming they actually don't mean what we think they mean.

[pixie374]

Or vice versa, sorry, just saw your question, mozz. In principle, it is equally wrong either way. In practice, obviously, one is much more harmful.
If a woman gets put into a male prison and starts raping male prisoners, or attacks men at male-only DV centres, intimidates them by wandering into their changing rooms and so on... it would be the same.

[jim360]

I know what you mean when you say woman, she, her etc. I've explained what I mean when I say the same thing. Those two are different. That's as far as I'll go. I don't claim that you don't mean what you think you mean, or some such; I only explain what *I* mean, and why it's different.

[pixie374]

Well, it's either sex or gender.... and gender is only relevant to those and those close to them. How is the confusion helping anyone? It's just being taken far too literally.

[pixie374]

Terf- an old word. Trans-exclusionary radical feminist.
They aren't trans-exclusionary, like all "feminism", they centre women, whether they are trans or not. And there is nothing radical, this ideology is as old-fashioned as you could get.
Ladies, we are all terfs or hand-maidens. Take your pick...

[naomi24]

//I don't claim that you don't mean what you think you mean, or some such//

Priceless. :o)

[Deskdiary]

Jim - all I want to know is, to me at least, very very simple, and I think it's a simple Yes or No answer.

Is it fair for a man identifying as a woman, who has had all the benefits of having gone through puberty and become a fully grown man with all the physical advantages that brings, to compete against proper women?

[naomi24]

I’d be interested in Jim’s answer to that question, deskdiary. I can’t imagine he hasn’t seen it.

[Deskdiary]

I think the trouble is Naomi, some people are just so achingly ‘right-on’, that they simply can’t bear the thought that something as obviously unfair as this is the correct answer.

Jim is conspicuous by his absence.

Jourdain summed it up
perfectly for me “stating that women are women…that this can possibly considered controversial enters the realms of lunacy”

[naomi24]

I agree with you, deskdiary. Jim doesn’t appear to be willing to acknowledge reality.

[SparklyKid]

This gender identity is absolutely ridiculous. Is it now legal for me, a male, to walk into a ladies changing rooms and say "Call me Geraldine"

This 6'4" swimmer is a big bloke with a full set of meat and two veg.
Who in their right minds sanctioned the lunacy that he is allowed to compete against real women.

There are some here that support him and ridiculously suggest that his real female competitors have no objections, nonsense.

It is time the world accepted that there are only two genders.

I accept that there are some , presumably mentally unstable, who cannot decide what they are. I have read of cases where parents on newborns will not disclose the gender, saying, the child will decide when it grows up.

I also get sick of being told I am behind times and things have moved on, not for me. As a child about 10 I played doctors and nurses, all very innocent but it taught me that there are only two types of humans, girls and boys.

[rowanwitch]

It's such a shame that it's only cases like this are newsworthy, no one who has gone through the transition process, or is going through it has done so on a whim, it's incredibly hard for the vast majority of trans people who simply wish to live a life with a body that matches what their brain has been telling them all their lives. So many are lost to suicide, and substance abuse because of the stigma that is attached to their condition. So many suffer abuse and rejection except from those willing to accept them for who they are. As the friend of a trans man I am so happy that he and I use he despite our having been schoolgirls together is now able to live the life that should have been open to him when we were so much younger. He won't mind me saying he can't have completion surgery due to previous trauma but he is as much a bloke in manner, voice and behaviour as any other I know.
However sport is an issue, and there is a discussion to be had about fairness. Even within a set of biological men or women there are huge differences in physicality and ability. It is not beyond the capacity of science to develop a handicapping system to level the playing field in many sports. Maybe even to the point where we compete just as people and gender ceases to be an issue.

[pixie374]

You aren't "behind the times" sparkly. Jim's MO currently, seems to be that either we can outvote biology with a vote (which would easily lose).
Or that people here are too old to get used to something "new". It isn't new. Many here will have seen the full-on struggle to even start to get equality- we haven't even got as far as pay gaps yet. And the idea that men are entitled to take whatever they like, at the expense of others, is nothing new either. Only the methods circulate.

[naomi24]

//Maybe even to the point where we compete just as people and gender ceases to be an issue. //

That can't realistically happen though, Rowan, for obvious reasons. What really is the point of a woman athlete training when she knows that if she's competing against a man her chances of winning are scarce at the most? That is soul destroying.

Whilst I feel for people like your friend, the bottom line is their problems are their own. They shouldn't expect the rest of the society to shift to accommodate them.

[pixie374]

Gender has never been an issue. We only ever have, and can, separate by sex.

[rowanwitch]

Society shifts to accommodate other problems, gender dysphoria is just another. As a society we should be able to find ways of including those who due to an accident of birth, development, or later trauma are not from the standard mould. As I said it must be possible to develop a system based on biometrics that can be used to adjust sporting outcomes so the 5'6" lad who was a high jumper could compete with the bigger lads, the smaller trans man compete with other men, and a trans female can compete with natural women without gaining an advantage.