Crosswords1 min ago
Civil Partnerships
Now that civil partnerships are going ahead, is there a danger that impressionable young people will start to believe that homsexuality is normal?
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To be honest i'm not clear in my own mind about this. I welcome the legislation that gives rights to partners etc but i get the impression that CP has given some gay couples the excuse to 'get married' with everything getting married entails. It is getting married in everything but name. Maybe i was wrong to say 'cherry picking' (like i said i haven't got a clear opinion on this just yet ) but i think this argument extends to whether you consider homosexuality as a life style choice or you are born that way.
Gary - the issue isn't just about the desire to demonstrate a loving union between two people similar to marriage it is also about establishing legal rights for same sex couple,
"It means same-sex couples will be entitled to a range of property rights, the same exemption as married couples on inheritance tax, social security and pension benefits, and also the ability to get parental responsibility for a partner's children" - the important everyday things that same sex couples expect"
source http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3584285.stm
Gary I may have misunderstood your answer completely. If I have, you are welcome to laugh ;)
I think that there are at least two reasons why this is an excellent step. 1) Gives the same rights etc. 2) Many people want to get married (or be in a civil partnership) because they want to declare their love, find the concept of marriage beautiful and like the idea of being in a relationship that are on paper as well (just to list some of the reasons). Why would homosexuals be any different from that? Why wouldn't they want to have a party to say "hey we got married and we are very happy". This may not be the first and foremost issue here, but I see it as an positive side effect!!
I'll just crawl back to my "love to answer questions when I have no idea what exactly is going on but get the drift from the other answers" hole :)
MrsT - wind up or not. An answer to your question - Hippy said it all really.
gary - sorry didn't see your post before my last one. I don't really understand your argument though... a lot of marriages may well be an excuse to have a party but i don't see why that should stop the same being true of Civil Partnerships, isn't that what marriage is all about a declaration of love infront of your friends and family and then a really good party... i might have missed the point, if i have please explain i may just be being a bit dense tonight.
additionally i would be very suprised if anyone though that homosexuality was a lifestyle choice - why / how could it be??
one last thing yes the i think the civil partnership is marriage but with a different name, are you saying you think it should be called marriage instead of civil partnership? i would tend to argree with you on this but can understand states reluctance due to religious pressures etc.
So same sex CP couples now have more rights than opp sex couples who chose not to get married...! and nobody else seems to think that's unfair! Lots of couples choose not to get married but just because we can do, does not mean we should HAVE to. The world is going barmy. Equal rights for all! Isn't that "pc"
I have trouble reconciling this in my own mind because marriage is a social construct the comes out of a religous, hetrosexual tradition. I dont understand why homosexuals feel the need to respond to this tradition because it is contrary to their chosen life style. I am in no doubt that love between the same sexes is possible and if a public celebration of this is warranted so be it but i believe that marriage as we know it (be it in the eyes of god or in a civil ceremony) is an essentially hetrosexual ritual and something that perhaps shouldn't be 'bought into' by homosexuals.
I read this thread with interest because I was curious to hear what people thought.
Bravo to all of you...good to see some level headed analysis and questions on the subject.
Latecomer - I hear what you're saying, but straight couples can get married. They've had that option forever. Gay couples now have a civil partnership which now levels the playing field. I honestly don't see how that can be construed in anyway as an advantage or even PC.
I honestly feel a deep sense of pride in the way that this has been handled. Rock on Britain for being so progessive...and to think Clause 28 was just 17 years ago!
Brings a tear to the eye.
Oh, and Gary...yeah - some gay couples are going to have a big bash which shouts out their union...and some are going to have very quiet ceremonies, with just a few close friends.
Just like straight couples.
Just thought - how on earth do you dissolve a civil partnership? Don't know whether there'll be the equivalent to a 'divorce'???
I don't think that there is a danger that impressionable young people will start to believe that homosexuality is normal. I think that there is a likelihood that impressionable young people will start to believe that homosexuality is normal. I also think that the question is a spoof anyway, so it doesn't matter.
So same sex CP couples now have more rights than opp sex couples who chose not to get married...! and nobody else seems to think that's unfair!
Same sex couples do not have more rights than opposite sex couples. Couples of either orientation can only get those rights by entering into a union (civil partnership or marriage, as the case may be) and don't without.
I have trouble reconciling this in my own mind because marriage is a social construct the comes out of a religous, hetrosexual tradition
Only because the law says so; the law has now been changed to include same-sex couples.
I dont understand why homosexuals feel the need to respond to this tradition because it is contrary to their chosen life style
"Chosen"?!? Gay people choose to get married because of the tax and legal benefits that goes with it.
i think it totally disgusting and should not be allowed. and please let me have my opinion.
Ha ha ha!!!! that's the spoofiest answer of all!
Latecomer - I hear what you're saying, but straight couples can get married. They've had that option forever. Gay couples now have a civil partnership which now levels the playing field. I honestly don't see how that can be construed in anyway as an advantage or even PC.
I totally agree with that bit.
Just thought - how on earth do you dissolve a civil partnership? Don't know whether there'll be the equivalent to a 'divorce'???
Of course there will - just the same.
I think everyone should get into the real world.Homosexuality is eons (sp?) old.
So bluddy what if you are same or opposing - mind u dont often hear men complaining re same women - that was a snide BTW.We are all Jock Thamsans Bairns (See Rabbie Burns and that was centuries ago) and as such should be treated the same and given the same rights.
I say get on with your own life and keep your nose out of others then we shall all be happy.(Didnt mean that to be cheeky)
Latecomer, point taken perhaps i was a little harsh but the fact that she says 'Is there a DANGER that...people will start to believe honosexuality is NORMAL' gives the impression that mrst thinks that it is not 'normal' you cannot deny that!
Had she asked the question in an unbiased way i would not have been so eager to respond it that manner
Everything that bernardo said.
Latecomer - what are you talking about? The most poignent word in your post is choose. Lots of couples choose not to get married, now lots of gay couples can choose not to get 'married'
Marriage - A close union: �the most successful marriage of beauty and blood in mainstream comics�
Common law marriage, There are many other definitions of the word.
Gary Baldy - I know a few hetro couples who have got married just for the party!!!
I don't know if MrsT's question is a spoof or not, but I think there is a valid point there and it didn't deserve all the outraged "let's get the gay bashers" responses.
First, let me say that I have known many very nice people, men and women, who were gay, and I don't have a problem with that. Also, I think the world has benefitted enormously from famous gay people such as Oscar Wilde and Freddie Mercury (and no doubt I'll get stick for saying that).
But I do think that the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of homosexuality. It has become almost fashionable to be gay. All soaps have to have gay kissing, all comedies have to be full of gays and, for example, Jonathon Ross regularly hints that he will have to give it a try.
Even when MrsT suggests that homosexuality may not be "normal" she gets lambasted. What concerns me is that there may be young people who do get drawn into homosexuality who might otherwise have lived a hetero life and been happy with it. I believe that some people are born gay and I consider that to be normal and I have no problem with it. But, for other people, sex is surely a male/female thing - clearly nature has designed our sexual organs for this purpose and anything else is a deviation from this. It might be compared to, say, our eyesight. Nature has given us the ability to see clearly but some people have short-sightedness, which is a deviation from the way it should be.
Right - you can lynch me now for daring to suggest that homosexuality isn't a wonderful thing!
DavidUK, you are suggesting that homosexuality is (or can be a choice) which is something i don't subscribe to, I believe it to be inate, at least in the case of men. Some women I grant have 'become' lesbians after extreem cases of abuse by men.
With that in mind, it can be nothing but 'normal'
I'm not going to lynch you, but i do question your reasoning, I don't see how someone can be 'drawn into' being gay? You're either gay or you're not.
People have suffered for decades because of being told that what is 'normal' to them, is wrong. I find this inexcusable, and any shift in mainstream life that can accomodate people for what they are (rather than have them live their life in misery and shame) can only be a good thing.
I also don't see how the balance has swung too far the other way - how many episodes have there been of coronation street? - thousands?, how many have contained a same sex couple kissing? maybe 3?
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