Motoring1 min ago
Should Offers Be Put To The Union Membership By Law?
43 Answers
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It seems that the union barons are yearning for the 70s again, is it time to clip their wings?
It seems that the union barons are yearning for the 70s again, is it time to clip their wings?
Answers
//I am very flattered that when the Government f**ks up, ABs right wingers ask me for the solution.// I wouldnt flatter yourself too much, its usually we are astounded at your lack of economic reality. //Spiralling inflation is largely out of the Government’s hands, outside factors are at play. Though they were very slow to react because everyone knew it was...
14:39 Fri 19th Aug 2022
The Unions have balloted their members, which is time consuming and costly. They cannot be expected to keep doing this every day.
The process isn't helped by the fragmented players in the negotiations - several Unions, dozens of rail companies, the shortly to be abolished Network Rail, the Department of Transport and the Mayors. Good luck trying to get that lot to agree.
The process isn't helped by the fragmented players in the negotiations - several Unions, dozens of rail companies, the shortly to be abolished Network Rail, the Department of Transport and the Mayors. Good luck trying to get that lot to agree.
//This is all a result of privatisation.//
Actually I think quite the reverse is true.
The railways are effectively renationalised. The infrastructure provider, Railtrack, latterly Network Rail, was nationalised in 2001. The franchises held by the Train Operating Companies (TOCs) were essentially abandoned almost two years ago. The Exchequer pumped vast sums of money into them during the pandemic to keep them going and their contracts were torn up as a result. The government (i.e. the taxpayer) is paying to run the railways and receives all revenue. The former franchisees receive a management fee. It is only right and proper that the government has a considerable say in any settlement that might be proposed.
Even without the pandemic the privatisation model used for the railways was an utter failure and was on its last legs anyway. They should have been privatised using a vertical integration model with operators being responsible for the trains, the stations and the infrastructure. The heyday of Britain’s railways was between the 1923 “Grouping” exercise which formed the “Big Four” railway companies and 1948 when they were nationalised. That format was essentially a privatised railway with each operator being responsible for all aspects of operation.
//Strikes should be "all out" until a settlement is reached - none of this on again off again death by a thousand cuts.//
//Nope. I take it you don’t use trains/underground much.//
I use trains and the London Underground quite a lot and I completely agree with davebro. As it stands currently, the rail workers can strike for one day and cripple the system for three days at the cost of only one day’s pay. Once a strike begins the workers should be locked out until they decide to return to work normally. Rail users would know where they stand and it would concentrate the minds of both sides to reach a settlement.
Actually I think quite the reverse is true.
The railways are effectively renationalised. The infrastructure provider, Railtrack, latterly Network Rail, was nationalised in 2001. The franchises held by the Train Operating Companies (TOCs) were essentially abandoned almost two years ago. The Exchequer pumped vast sums of money into them during the pandemic to keep them going and their contracts were torn up as a result. The government (i.e. the taxpayer) is paying to run the railways and receives all revenue. The former franchisees receive a management fee. It is only right and proper that the government has a considerable say in any settlement that might be proposed.
Even without the pandemic the privatisation model used for the railways was an utter failure and was on its last legs anyway. They should have been privatised using a vertical integration model with operators being responsible for the trains, the stations and the infrastructure. The heyday of Britain’s railways was between the 1923 “Grouping” exercise which formed the “Big Four” railway companies and 1948 when they were nationalised. That format was essentially a privatised railway with each operator being responsible for all aspects of operation.
//Strikes should be "all out" until a settlement is reached - none of this on again off again death by a thousand cuts.//
//Nope. I take it you don’t use trains/underground much.//
I use trains and the London Underground quite a lot and I completely agree with davebro. As it stands currently, the rail workers can strike for one day and cripple the system for three days at the cost of only one day’s pay. Once a strike begins the workers should be locked out until they decide to return to work normally. Rail users would know where they stand and it would concentrate the minds of both sides to reach a settlement.
There’s a long winter of discontent coming and it appears the RMT have got plenty of other unions on their side or coming round to their way of thinking.
Real-terms pay losses have irked so many for too long whilst the rich get richer and MP’s are given inflation-busting pay rises, as well as lots of other hidden extras and expenses.
The people have had enough of hearing ‘we are all in this together’ from multi-millionaires, Truss is in for a baptism of fire that’ll make her head spin.
She claims she wants a high wage economy?
Let’s see it.
Real-terms pay losses have irked so many for too long whilst the rich get richer and MP’s are given inflation-busting pay rises, as well as lots of other hidden extras and expenses.
The people have had enough of hearing ‘we are all in this together’ from multi-millionaires, Truss is in for a baptism of fire that’ll make her head spin.
She claims she wants a high wage economy?
Let’s see it.
Paigntonian
//I'm still staggered that an Underground driver earns £58,000 basic, more with overtime, has 12 weeks' holiday and doesn't really need to be there...//
Not unlike Johnson then?
I would imagine the public too are staggered that a PM(whilst Mayor of London) could get a second job writing a newspaper column for £250,000 a year and describe it as ‘chickenfeed’.
These people don’t live in the real world and the general public are getting wise to them, except for the 160,000 deluded octogenarians.
//I'm still staggered that an Underground driver earns £58,000 basic, more with overtime, has 12 weeks' holiday and doesn't really need to be there...//
Not unlike Johnson then?
I would imagine the public too are staggered that a PM(whilst Mayor of London) could get a second job writing a newspaper column for £250,000 a year and describe it as ‘chickenfeed’.
These people don’t live in the real world and the general public are getting wise to them, except for the 160,000 deluded octogenarians.
Paigntonian
//Fatt: Why don't you compare the salaries, benefits and perks of the transport workers with the head of their union?//
Why do I need to do that? His members obviously thinks he’s doing avoid high for then and has got their interests at heart, probably also why he’s getting so much admiration from workers in other trades and unions?
//Fatt: Why don't you compare the salaries, benefits and perks of the transport workers with the head of their union?//
Why do I need to do that? His members obviously thinks he’s doing avoid high for then and has got their interests at heart, probably also why he’s getting so much admiration from workers in other trades and unions?
Maybe this needs addressing more urgently, if you want to talk about wage comparisons?
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Inflation is running at 10% so any wage offers under that (spread over two or 3 years) are going to be rejected.
As our economy begins to mirror the 1970s so our industrial relations will do the same.
The Winter of Discontent II is not inevitable, but we seem to have a Government that wants that to happen.
Blaming the Unions takes the blame off of them.
As our economy begins to mirror the 1970s so our industrial relations will do the same.
The Winter of Discontent II is not inevitable, but we seem to have a Government that wants that to happen.
Blaming the Unions takes the blame off of them.
I am very flattered that when the Government f**ks up, ABs right wingers ask me for the solution.
Spiralling inflation is largely out of the Government’s hands, outside factors are at play. Though they were very slow to react because everyone knew it was coming.
This Government has borrowed a lot of money. It needs paying back so the Government is trying to cut spending. To that ends, the Department of Transport are cutting NetworkRail’s budget. Network rail intend to cut staff, safety and pay/hours to please its paymasters, the Government.
So there isn’t really much room for serious negotiation.
Spiralling inflation is largely out of the Government’s hands, outside factors are at play. Though they were very slow to react because everyone knew it was coming.
This Government has borrowed a lot of money. It needs paying back so the Government is trying to cut spending. To that ends, the Department of Transport are cutting NetworkRail’s budget. Network rail intend to cut staff, safety and pay/hours to please its paymasters, the Government.
So there isn’t really much room for serious negotiation.
//I am very flattered that when the Government f**ks up, ABs right wingers ask me for the solution.//
I wouldnt flatter yourself too much, its usually we are astounded at your lack of economic reality.
//Spiralling inflation is largely out of the Government’s hands, outside factors are at play. Though they were very slow to react because everyone knew it was coming.//
Outside of their hands but they were slow to react how exactly? We are in a very unusual set of circumstances that are World Wide, just what do you expect the UK to do differently?
//This Government has borrowed a lot of money. It needs paying back so the Government is trying to cut spending. To that ends, the Department of Transport are cutting NetworkRail’s budget. Network rail intend to cut staff, safety and pay/hours to please its paymasters, the Government.//
OK, so lets put your tax up eh? Yes it borrowd too much, and I pointed out at the time lockdowns, furlough would cause this but the Covidians wanted even more. Even your beloved Labour wanted more - that would have meant even more debt!
//So there isn’t really much room for serious negotiation.//
Garbage, this is political and you know it. The Government cant pay more or everyone will want more then inflation will rise, you will whinge they didnt react properly and the whole cycle starts again.
I wouldnt flatter yourself too much, its usually we are astounded at your lack of economic reality.
//Spiralling inflation is largely out of the Government’s hands, outside factors are at play. Though they were very slow to react because everyone knew it was coming.//
Outside of their hands but they were slow to react how exactly? We are in a very unusual set of circumstances that are World Wide, just what do you expect the UK to do differently?
//This Government has borrowed a lot of money. It needs paying back so the Government is trying to cut spending. To that ends, the Department of Transport are cutting NetworkRail’s budget. Network rail intend to cut staff, safety and pay/hours to please its paymasters, the Government.//
OK, so lets put your tax up eh? Yes it borrowd too much, and I pointed out at the time lockdowns, furlough would cause this but the Covidians wanted even more. Even your beloved Labour wanted more - that would have meant even more debt!
//So there isn’t really much room for serious negotiation.//
Garbage, this is political and you know it. The Government cant pay more or everyone will want more then inflation will rise, you will whinge they didnt react properly and the whole cycle starts again.
youngmafbog
//I am very flattered that when the Government f**ks up, ABs right wingers ask me for the solution.//
/I wouldnt flatter yourself too much, its usually we are astounded at your lack of economic reality./
You seem to have a depth of knowledge, why aren’t you working for or advising the government?
You mock everyone else’s suggestions so a financial wizard ought to have all the answers, no?
Or is it just another excuse to ‘have a go at the 5Cers’ because you don’t really care about the crises being solved, beating Labour is the ultimate aim isn’t it?
//I am very flattered that when the Government f**ks up, ABs right wingers ask me for the solution.//
/I wouldnt flatter yourself too much, its usually we are astounded at your lack of economic reality./
You seem to have a depth of knowledge, why aren’t you working for or advising the government?
You mock everyone else’s suggestions so a financial wizard ought to have all the answers, no?
Or is it just another excuse to ‘have a go at the 5Cers’ because you don’t really care about the crises being solved, beating Labour is the ultimate aim isn’t it?
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