Quizzes & Puzzles31 mins ago
Next Boss (And Tory Peer) Simon Wolfson, Shoots Himself In The Foot And Then Complains About A Pain In His Foot
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//There are a large number of people on this site who still believe that Brexit is a good idea – I want to disavow them of that belief.//
Then, in my case, you’re in for a long haul.
As usual, I’ll say it again: the principle aim of Brexit was to ensure that the UK ceased to be a member of the EU. Job done. The rest is noise.
As far as rejoining goes, there is not a credible party which has any intention of doing that - especially as the terms will be even worse than those of our previous membership (if you could imagine such a thing). In fact, it is far more likely that the EU will have collapsed long before any campaign of that nature succeeds.
What you really need to do is to ask yourself this: if the EU is such a wonderful institution and a resounding success, why is it that no group of countries anywhere else has seen fit to form something like it? I'll leave aside the former Soviet Union for obvious reasons, but if you want to include it in your argument, feel free. You would think that countries would be queuing up to form fiscal and political unions where their laws are subservient to those of the Union and their Parliaments are effectively neutered as a condition of membership. After all, the EU has been in existence in some form or another for over sixty years and there has been plenty of time for other nations to "see how it goes". But strangely, none seem to be doing too bothered.
Then, in my case, you’re in for a long haul.
As usual, I’ll say it again: the principle aim of Brexit was to ensure that the UK ceased to be a member of the EU. Job done. The rest is noise.
As far as rejoining goes, there is not a credible party which has any intention of doing that - especially as the terms will be even worse than those of our previous membership (if you could imagine such a thing). In fact, it is far more likely that the EU will have collapsed long before any campaign of that nature succeeds.
What you really need to do is to ask yourself this: if the EU is such a wonderful institution and a resounding success, why is it that no group of countries anywhere else has seen fit to form something like it? I'll leave aside the former Soviet Union for obvious reasons, but if you want to include it in your argument, feel free. You would think that countries would be queuing up to form fiscal and political unions where their laws are subservient to those of the Union and their Parliaments are effectively neutered as a condition of membership. After all, the EU has been in existence in some form or another for over sixty years and there has been plenty of time for other nations to "see how it goes". But strangely, none seem to be doing too bothered.
I forgot to add that the thrust of Lord Wolfson’s argument seems to be that the UK does not have enough workers to do vital jobs:
“We have got people queueing up to come to this country to pick crops that are rotting in fields, to work in warehouses that otherwise wouldn’t be operable, and we’re not letting them in,”
What he also neglects to add is that net (legal) migration to the country still tops over a third of a million people a year. As well as that, there are over 5 million “economically inactive” people of working age. They are not all ill; they are not all looking after sick relatives. Many of them have simply chosen not to work. If we import more labour to undertake poorly paid work, the taxpayer will pick up the bill to make up their wages (thanks to Gordon Brown’s ludicrous “tax credit” system) and the country’s financial woes will deteriorate further.
The way to relieve the labour shortages is to “disincentivise” idleness by making it extremely difficult for people who are able to work to sit at home watching the telly and munching Hobnobs. The very worst thing we can do is to import hordes of low-skilled, low paid workers who will be a further burden on the taxpayer. The country needs to be weaned off cheap unskilled foreign labour.
“We have got people queueing up to come to this country to pick crops that are rotting in fields, to work in warehouses that otherwise wouldn’t be operable, and we’re not letting them in,”
What he also neglects to add is that net (legal) migration to the country still tops over a third of a million people a year. As well as that, there are over 5 million “economically inactive” people of working age. They are not all ill; they are not all looking after sick relatives. Many of them have simply chosen not to work. If we import more labour to undertake poorly paid work, the taxpayer will pick up the bill to make up their wages (thanks to Gordon Brown’s ludicrous “tax credit” system) and the country’s financial woes will deteriorate further.
The way to relieve the labour shortages is to “disincentivise” idleness by making it extremely difficult for people who are able to work to sit at home watching the telly and munching Hobnobs. The very worst thing we can do is to import hordes of low-skilled, low paid workers who will be a further burden on the taxpayer. The country needs to be weaned off cheap unskilled foreign labour.
TTT,
You've claimed Brexit is all about sovereignty and that we were on our knees in the EU. That's rhetoric rather than reasoned argument. We weren't at war with the EU - it was a first and foremost a trading bloc. Can you explain how Brexit has improved the economy and made our lives better? Even your ally, Rees-Mogg, has said it might be 50 years until the benefits appear.
You've claimed Brexit is all about sovereignty and that we were on our knees in the EU. That's rhetoric rather than reasoned argument. We weren't at war with the EU - it was a first and foremost a trading bloc. Can you explain how Brexit has improved the economy and made our lives better? Even your ally, Rees-Mogg, has said it might be 50 years until the benefits appear.
JDavis: "You've claimed Brexit is all about sovereignty and that we were on our knees in the EU. That's rhetoric rather than reasoned argument." - really? our own parliament was not in charge, end of.
"We weren't at war with the EU - it was a first and foremost a trading bloc." - No one said we were at was and yes indeed it was a trading bloc and that is good for all concerned. I was happy with that and I would have voted to remain in that trading bloc in 1975. The problem is that it now is on an inexorable path to becomming a United States of Europe, that isn't what we signed up for.
"Can you explain how Brexit has improved the economy and made our lives better?" - Once again you and your ilk miss the point, we knew there would be issues with the economy, the true state is obscured by various crises since we actually left but we wanted out, our aim was to regain control of our country the economy is secondary to that.
"Even your ally, Rees-Mogg, has said it might be 50 years until the benefits appear. " - I don't know how you think JRM and I are allies but anyway it depends what you mean by "benefits". This may come as a shock but there are other issues beyond the purely monetary. We reap the benefits every day we are free from control by an unelected foreign ersatz socialist dictatorship. None of the above is new, myself and others have said it 100 times on here but it doesn't seem to penetrate the skulls of those who seem only to care about fiscal matters.
"We weren't at war with the EU - it was a first and foremost a trading bloc." - No one said we were at was and yes indeed it was a trading bloc and that is good for all concerned. I was happy with that and I would have voted to remain in that trading bloc in 1975. The problem is that it now is on an inexorable path to becomming a United States of Europe, that isn't what we signed up for.
"Can you explain how Brexit has improved the economy and made our lives better?" - Once again you and your ilk miss the point, we knew there would be issues with the economy, the true state is obscured by various crises since we actually left but we wanted out, our aim was to regain control of our country the economy is secondary to that.
"Even your ally, Rees-Mogg, has said it might be 50 years until the benefits appear. " - I don't know how you think JRM and I are allies but anyway it depends what you mean by "benefits". This may come as a shock but there are other issues beyond the purely monetary. We reap the benefits every day we are free from control by an unelected foreign ersatz socialist dictatorship. None of the above is new, myself and others have said it 100 times on here but it doesn't seem to penetrate the skulls of those who seem only to care about fiscal matters.
Britains are still waiting for Boris's Sunlit Uplands, and they're getting restless. Two years of Brexit and still no Alice in wonderland, meanwhile the ex blonde Mad Hatter who organized all his parties during lockdown is swanning around still partying whilst being paid as an MP. And TTT is still trying to flog his Sovereign wine while running around singing Rule Britannia. Gawd elp.
doug, ok thought it was meant for this:
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More rhetoric, TTT, largely repeating what you've said before.
I don't remember Leave warning us there would be issues with the economy. Do you have evidence of that? I imagine most people were more concerned with the economy than the supposed non-monetary benefits but of course we're not true patriots like 'you and your ilk'.
(Like the way you're portraying yourself as a man of principle rather than a grubby materialist like the rest of us.
Still, it's nice we've regained control of our country! We haven't really but that's down to Covid and Ukraine!
I don't remember Leave warning us there would be issues with the economy. Do you have evidence of that? I imagine most people were more concerned with the economy than the supposed non-monetary benefits but of course we're not true patriots like 'you and your ilk'.
(Like the way you're portraying yourself as a man of principle rather than a grubby materialist like the rest of us.
Still, it's nice we've regained control of our country! We haven't really but that's down to Covid and Ukraine!
//...how do you know? Please provide data.//
I don't have data. The problem is, neither does anybody else, including, most importantly, the people who are ladling out taxpayers' hard-earned. In the absence of data, there is ample anecdotal evidence to support my contention. You don't have to look too hard.
I don't have data. The problem is, neither does anybody else, including, most importantly, the people who are ladling out taxpayers' hard-earned. In the absence of data, there is ample anecdotal evidence to support my contention. You don't have to look too hard.
Jdavis…
i think most leavers at the time downplayed or outright dismissed the economic problems that would arise from brexit. they never really had an answer for them other than to call it scaremongering or to insist it would be worth it in the end.
i don’t think it’s worth it… i never felt that being in the eu was particularly oppressive.
i think most leavers at the time downplayed or outright dismissed the economic problems that would arise from brexit. they never really had an answer for them other than to call it scaremongering or to insist it would be worth it in the end.
i don’t think it’s worth it… i never felt that being in the eu was particularly oppressive.
//What! Worse than not being able to export a pork banger into NI. Surely not.//
No. Worse than the conditions we endured whilst we were members for the first time. Exporting sausages to Northern Ireland i snothing to do with it.
The UK had a number of "opt outs" whilst it was a member (from the euro, Schengen and a few other lunatic ideas that the Euromaniacs came up with). Those will not be available should we rejoin.
No. Worse than the conditions we endured whilst we were members for the first time. Exporting sausages to Northern Ireland i snothing to do with it.
The UK had a number of "opt outs" whilst it was a member (from the euro, Schengen and a few other lunatic ideas that the Euromaniacs came up with). Those will not be available should we rejoin.
//What evidence is your claim based upon?//
Information given to me personally by people on the receiving end of this munificence and from anecdotes from others whom I've no reason to disbelieve.
If you are prepared to unconditionally accept that some 20% of the working age population are genuinely unable to work that's your prerogative. I'm not so gullible and I just wish those who are dolling out my cash would be a little more inquisitive.
Information given to me personally by people on the receiving end of this munificence and from anecdotes from others whom I've no reason to disbelieve.
If you are prepared to unconditionally accept that some 20% of the working age population are genuinely unable to work that's your prerogative. I'm not so gullible and I just wish those who are dolling out my cash would be a little more inquisitive.
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