The Conservatives Failed Immigration Policies

[Gromit]

For 12 years the Conservatives have pledged to get immigration down to the tens of thousands. The Home Secretary repeated that pledge at this years Conservative Party Conference. So it must be deeply embarrassing for the Government and its supporters to see todays ONS immigration figure of over 500,000 net immigration in 12 months.

They have repeatedly failed again and again. Even Brexit has proved to be a false hope.

// Net migration to the UK has reached a record level of 504,000.
Asylum applications are at their highest for 32 years.
The new net migration figure released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) is an increase of 331,000 in a single year and is at least 400,000 more than the home secretary, Suella Braverman, is aiming for. //

[New Judge]

//Dont belive that//

And I think thereby hangs the problem, bob.

[bobbinwales]

No newjudge... to convince doubters you need real evidence not someones tale of what they heard down the pub

[archibaldy]

// We have eight million people of working age sitting at home doing nothing... ... Yet we find it necessary to import people to fill vacancies. //

You write this like you find it surprising. No employer wants to employ someone who would rather be sat at home and has no ambition or skills. You've been critical of business before so why expect them to settle for sub-standard when there are plenty of people abroad that are motivated, qualified and would love to come and work in the UK?

The tech company I work for has about 8% of workers that we have sponsored working visas for, it actually costs more to the company to employ them due to relocation that we subsidise etc. but in the end you get qualified, loyal, and motivated employees. We would rather employ UK citizens but unfortunately a lot of the time they simply aren't good enough.

[ToraToraTora]

Whatever immigration policy anyone comes up with get stymied by TROB types like gromit, then gromit posts moaning about the issue that people like him create. PMSL!

[Gromit]

Thanks for the huge compliment TTT, but unfortunately I, and other critics can do no thwarting of Government policy - it is all down to them.
I write a few truths on an obscure website, and my words somehow cause a tsunami on Government policy ? Surely you don’t actually believe the nonsense you write ?

[ToraToraTora]

So you want to thwart government attempts to solve the issue and then you post saying the issue is not solved! Right oh!

Have you got any suggestions as to how the problem could be solved?

[Old_Geezer]

No employer wants to do the right thing for the country ahead of making life easier for themselves by short circuiting the system and importing cheap eager people from elsewhere. But the fact is that they should work with what we have here, attract with a decent offer, enthuse with the same, train where needed, etc..

[New Judge]

//...to convince doubters you need real evidence not someones tale of what they heard down the pub//

The problem is, bob, that many of the people involved here are "under the radar". They don't appear on any of the government statistics (which it seems is about all you will believe) because they don't want the government meddling in their affairs.

The people I speak of anecdotally are not people I met in the pub. They are friends and acquaintances whose circumstances I am well aware of. I know half a dozen or so and I do not believe I am the only person who knows such people. You will not find out about these people from the sort of "evidence" you crave. But the people are real and more importantly they require housing and, when they are ill, medical attention (to mention but two of the services they require but which the government does not consider when funding them).

[Untitled]

but we don’t know anything about the people you mention anecdotally or what their circumstances are… and even if you know them personally there is no guarantee that you do in fact know everything about their circumstances… it is not useful information.

[Gromit]

// So you want to thwart government attempts to solve the issue and then you post saying the issue is not solved! Right oh! //

Classic. You accuse me of saying something I haven’t said, then shift all the blame onto me. The Conservatives have been running the country for 12 years. We are at the stage of half a million yearly immigrants because of the Government and not me.
The ABers who continually vote in these charlatans are more to blame than me.

[ToraToraTora]

But you poo poo every idea and then moan that the issue isn't fixed. How do you suggest we solve this issue then oh wise one?

[Untitled]

as i see it the uncomfortable truth of the matter is that the uk economy needs immigration and that our appalling infrastructure problems are in fact self-inflicted for ideological reasons

[Hymie]

Whenever I post data from the ONS pointing out what a disaster Brexit is for the UK – Brexiteers claim the information is false, especially if it is reported on the BBC; yet no one appears to be claiming that the ONS data in this thread is false (this ONS data has been widely reported on the BBC).

[New Judge]

//Whenever I post data from the ONS pointing out what a disaster Brexit is for the UK//

I'll only try one more time - can you point us to the ONS (or any other reputable body) suggesting that Brexit has been "a disaster" or, as you have sometime s put it, an "utter disaster."

As an example of why you might need to justify your remarks, Since the UK formally left the bloc at the end of 2020, GDP growth in this country has been greater than that in Germany, France, Italy, Soain and the Eurozone as a whole. I've demonstrated this in a past question. Have a look at the first table in this report from the Commons Library, which shows GDP growth in the last four quarters:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/

If, as you contend, Brexit has been an "utter disaster" for the UK, based on those figures, what has it been for the EU?

We can all cherrypick individual aspects of the economy to suit our arguments and I'm as guilty of that as most are (though I haven't seen any from you other than your proclamations). But your assertion based on GDP growth over the last year simply does not hold water. But keep on saying it enough times and it might come true.

And of course, there is more to Brexit than the economy. EU nations relinquish their democratic control. At its General Election (or equivalent) an EU voter cannot change its county's policies on many issues. These include (by are not restricted to):

- Trade
- Food & Product Standards
- VAT
- Competition
- Immigration
- Consumer Protection
- Energy
- Environmental Protection
- Support for Industry and Poorer areas

If your country has adopted the single currency your vote will also not elect to office anybody who can influence the prevailing interest rates, government debt and deficit policy.

If you're happy to see your country contract out all these issues (and more besides) to a bunch of unelected foreigners, in the hope that GDP might be better by half a percent than countries which don't (and the figures I have provided do not support that over the last year) then the EU is the place for you. Fortunately to take advantage of that ideal you will have to move to one of the 26 EU nations because there is not a cat in Hell's chance of the UK returning to that ridiculous situation any time soon.

[ToraToraTora]

Well that shut him up judge but I fear the same drivel will emerge later ignoring all your attempts at reasoning.

[Gromit]

Another graph for you NJ from the OECD.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/2D75/production/_118873611_optimised-oecd_g20_covid_gap-nc-3.png.webp

OK a slightly different period, but the result is not good.

[New Judge]

//OK a slightly different period, but the result is not good.//

Indeed. But the chart I cited moves on four quarters from there and if you constructed the same chart for the last four quarters it would look very different. I imagine China's recovery since then has probably stalled because of their ridiculous "zero Covid" policy. But as said, it is easy to cherrypick figures which suit your narrative. Different countries move at different rates in different timescales.

Any views on the second aspect of my post?

[New Judge]

And I forgot to add that neither of these charts prove that Brexit had much, if any influence on the fluctuations. They certainly don't prove that Brexit has been an "utter disaster" and more than they prove it has been a resounding success.

[Bobbisox1]

^^^ spam , it creeps in everywhere