What Happened To Numeracy?

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/all-pupils-in-england-to-study-maths-until-18-under-rishi-sunaks-new-mission-12779266
Not sure what the PM means by, pupils will study Maths until 18, I assume he means the ones that are still in education. Anyway I find it shocking that:
"Around eight million adults in England have the numeracy skills of primary school children, " - so what happened? Why are we so innumerate as a nation? I'm not talking about Calculus here just basic 'rithmetic.

[Untitled]

two things...

everyone carries a calculator with them all the time now

the conservatives have introduced major real-terms cuts to education spending over the last 12 years to the extent that many schools in this country are actually delapidated and at risk of collapse

https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/dfe-warns-schools-facing-increasing-risk-of-structural-collapse

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/annual-report-education-spending-england-2022

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "everyone carries a calculator with them all the time now " - that's just a tool to do the sums it doesn't help if you have no idea of the method. Eg there is a regular poster on here who regularly asks very simple arithmetic questions, I bet she has a calculator, no use if you don't know the method.

[Zacs-Master]

But why do you need to know the method?

[ToraToraTora]

ZM Ok you can use a calculator....What percentage of 167 is 35? Now I don't doubt for a minute YOU can do it but even with a calculator many can't.

[bobbinwales]

You need to know which buttons to press/functions to use- do you multiply or divide, how to find a percentage of or off etc

[ToraToraTora]

I can remember once for an exercise in school we had to work out how many light years were in a Parsec. Calculators allowed but no help if you could not do basic trig.

[ichkeria]

I don’t see how teaching everyone maths to 18 is going to help numeracy.
Everyone does A level maths or whatever it’s called.
Good luck with that.
Or don’t let anyone leave school until they can count to 100?

[ToraToraTora]

A calculator is no use in maths, it's just a tool for simple arithmetic to save you doing it long hand. In fact calculators are allowed in O level maths inwards anyway. (well log tabs and SQRTs before that) - possible a slide rule.

[ToraToraTora]

ich: "Everyone does A level maths or whatever it’s called.
Good luck with that." - we are not talking about A level, just that which a primary school kid can do.

[ToraToraTora]

16:00 inwards = onwards

[ichkeria]

I know.
But if you are going to be doing maths up until the age of 18, that sort of maths?

[ichkeria]

So it’s the “count to 100” option?

That seems equally unlikely

[ZebuSanctuary]

Perhaps a barrier to those who struggle with numeracy is to ignore the Latin meaning of the word calculus?

Getting pupils to deal with abstract concepts, as numbers are, is this not somewhat cumbersome on their ability to learn?

[Tilly2]

He's talking about the need to develop analytical skills. Calculators won't help with that.

[bobbinwales]

I thought you had to carry on with maths until 18 if you hadnt got O level or whatever its called now. Don't think theres any plans to force people to do A level math's? But IMO even if they already got the O level math's and want to do something like A level History, Drama and Spanish there should be an ongoing maths for life course even if its only 2 hour a week just to keep it fresh?

[Untitled]

fortunately everyone also carries a machine that lets them search for any information available in the public domain instantaneously... including how to work out percentages

i do agree that this is not necessarily a good thing for developing personal numeracy skills and it obviously is more practical to just learn how to do it but it is a reality of the world today and we can't just pretend it doesn't exist

[ToraToraTora]

ich: "I know.
But if you are going to be doing maths up until the age of 18, that sort of maths? " - I think he's just talking about the basics. Given that 8 million do not have the skills of a primary school kid I think he has a point. Fractions, indices, percentages, simple geometry, trig, basic Algebra etc.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "fortunately everyone also carries a machine that lets them search for any information available in the public domain instantaneously... including how to work out percentages " - yes but even with that many won't follow it.

[Untitled]

i do not see what two extra years is going to do if somebody reaches 16 without basic mathematics... the problem seems to be how maths is taught rather than how long it is taught for... two more years of crap maths education won't solve it

[Tilly2]

Remember Literacy and Numeracy hours?
Were they to no avail?