What Happened To Numeracy?

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/all-pupils-in-england-to-study-maths-until-18-under-rishi-sunaks-new-mission-12779266
Not sure what the PM means by, pupils will study Maths until 18, I assume he means the ones that are still in education. Anyway I find it shocking that:
"Around eight million adults in England have the numeracy skills of primary school children, " - so what happened? Why are we so innumerate as a nation? I'm not talking about Calculus here just basic 'rithmetic.

[Ken4155]

I've found that many of those who can't count can lift really heavy weights.

[Zacs-Master]

jno, you may not have read my earlier posts but we seem to be on the same page. Tora seemed to think it important to know the workings behind things like percentages. I questioned him as to why but received no real answer. It would seem the requirement to know how mathematics works lies somewhere between basic arithmetic and astrophysics ;-)

[Redhelen72]

Chortlesplutters @Choux @0108

[bhg481]

I spent my entire working life as a scientist without needing to know what a parsec is.

[ToraToraTora]

The whole parsec thing and the percentage thing were just a side issue to illustrate that a calculator is of no use when you don't know the method to calculate what you want to calculate. The main thrust of the post is discuss the drift to innumeracy and the maths till 18 thing. Clearly many seem to think it's ok to not have even the basic numeracy skills. ZM's claim to have never needed to have to work out a simple percentage does seem a little odd given his stated career but I guess some just get by some how.

[jno]

oh I see. Yes, you don't have to understand the principle of the internal combustion engine, or the mechanics of drilling for oil, in order to drive a car. I don't know whether knowing how to use a calculator is "numeracy" but it seems adequate for many people's needs.

[ichkeria]

I absolutely agree that it's unacceptable to think that shoving a calculator in someone's hand is a substitute for numeracy.
Not quite the same as giving someone a dictionary instead of proper English lessons, but not far off.
I am unconvinced that the PM's announcement is much more than a soundbite though. Better to teach it properly early. And if necessary offer some sort of "maths" to people at a later age. Maybe that is what he means but it didn't sound like it.

[Zacs-Master]

'given his stated career'

I haven't stated my career.

[ToraToraTora]

jno: "I don't know whether knowing how to use a calculator is "numeracy" but it seems adequate for many people's needs. " - but from the above most do not know how to use a calculator and that apparently doesn't matter. They may be able to do 2+2 but as demonstrated by ZM for a simple percentage calculation without the method the calculator is of no use.

[jno]

but how often in real life does anyone need to know 27% of 138? I can't think when I last wanted to calculate a percentage of anything at all.

[ToraToraTora]

ZM: "I haven't stated my career" - well not a full and detailed CV but a few highlights:
16:50: //Director of 2 companies, Associate Director of another and a Sole Trader in my time, YMB. Currently a 'Senior Principal [insert job title]'. // - ....and you achieved all that without primary school level maths......right oh!

[Zacs-Master]

Technology has superseded the need to know how the method works. Forget calculators, they're old-hat.

The chances of me needing to know what percentage a small number is of a larger number somewhere where I don't have 4 of 5G are.......remote.

[Zacs-Master]

Now you're being silly, Tora. I have basic maths skills (addition, subtraction, multiplication and I can even, approximately, work out percentages in my head!) which have been more than adequate throughout my career. You've repeated a list of positions I've attained within my career, not my actual profession.

[ToraToraTora]

jno: "but how often in real life does anyone need to know 27% of 138? I can't think when I last wanted to calculate a percentage of anything at all. " - it happens every day, the news is full of percentages etc. There is an ABer who regularly asks us questions of that nature. Ok what about a more practical example and this kind of thing has been asked on here. How many 18 inch square tiles do I need to tile a 12'x18' room?

[Zacs-Master]

https://www.diy.com/ideas-advice/calculators/tiling-calculator

[Zacs-Master]

By the way, we went Metric 50 years ago.

[choux]

You may have, Zacs but I still convert back to proper everything and guess I will do to my dying day. 12/- each for lovely sausages? Crikey.

[ToraToraTora]

ZM: Interesting you pick on the imperial measurements I used rather than the actual issue. Would you not like to know how to work out the tiling problem yourself? Whenever we talk about internet/smart phones etc, we always have some screaming well not everyone has a smart phone and can use the net. Yes it's great that almost anything can be done on line these days, wonderful. I suppose I'm a rarity in actually wanting to know how things are done or how they work. In a way I envy those who can get though life without knowing or caring that they don't know.

[Zacs-Master]

I'd just started learning the old ways when Metrication came in, choux. So I was lucky that I was educated in it from about 7 years old.

[ToraToraTora]

ZM: "By the way, we went Metric 50 years ago. " - err miles?
Actually miles is actually metric in a way, it's 1000 paces (Mille) of a Roman soldier doubling.