Hospital Fined

[lankeela]

for death of baby - what is the point of fining the hospital when they are supposedly so short of money? Wouldn't it be better to sack those involved?

[goodgoalie]

And who gets the £800,000 - the government that funds the hospital in the first place?

[jno]

got a link?

[goodgoalie]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/nottingham-nhs-donna-ockenden-care-quality-commission-mothers-b2270514.html

[jno]

thanks, goodgoalie. Well, perhaps the money returning to the government will encourage them to increase staff numbers - it seems this has already happened at this particular trust. If the errors were related to staff being overworked, which they may well have been if they were understaffed, there's no point in sacking them.

[New Judge]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-64422598

As above, utterly, utterly pointless. The hospital trust (funded 100% by the Exchequer) pays £800k to er...the Exchequer. There is an £800k hole in their budget. So where do they look for replenishment. (Clue: T__ E___eq__r).

"District Judge Grace Leong said she was "acutely aware" the fine would be paid for by funding that would usually be used for patient care."

So the people who made these grave errors, and their managers who are responsible for their work, walk away. Meanwhile £800k gets shovelled from one line on the hospital's balance sheet to another on the Chancellor's books. And then back again next year.

[tomus42]

I'll never understand the point of fining organisations that are funded by the public.

Now they have 800k less to spend on health care. Only the public is being punished here.

[dave50]

Is it a fine or is it compensation for the relatives?

[murraymints]

very sad

[barry1010]

It's a fine, Dave. The compensation claim will be separate now blame is clear

[barry1010]

There may be sackings but it is the organisation that is legally liable.

[naomi24]

Barmy! I hope those responsible were sacked - but I have my doubts.

[MissTerious2]

Its ridiculous!! Makes me very angry.

[dave50]

Why would there be financial compensation? Who puts a price on a baby's head? Money won't bring the child back and it punishes nobody except the taxpayer.

[barry1010]

The law says compensation can be claimed for medical negligence. Maybe the parents won’t sue, that’s their choice

[Peter Pedant]

NHS units are exempt from corporate manslaughter legislation. When it was a bill, they applied for exclusion. The grounds will make you laugh. They might be convicted ! Minister said yes yes of course!

Fines ( payable to the state) are different to damages paid to the heirs. - see the long appalling ( unread) threads about penalties and fines

they are assessed on income. Babies have no income. Worf abart a tenner den. ( £10 000).

if a unit is crap, it is vv diff to fire - Maternity services, quality, responsibility for, - official
he will just say he wasnt there but on a quality trg day.

any other points arising

Judgie baby said she was well aware that it wd come out of lu-lu for services and so she fixed it at £800 000k

[Peter Pedant]

DAMAGES payable to parents in this case , is based on loss
and babies have no assessable loss.

You cant sue on a chance ( 1.100 chance od PM at £200 000 - so that is 2000 for the av time of a PM say 20 y - total £400 000)

[barry1010]

The parents can sue for distress, loss of earnings if they needed time off work, cost of counselling if needed

[New Judge]

//NHS units are exempt from corporate manslaughter legislation.//

Are you sure about that, Peter?:

https://www.mintonmorrill.co.uk/site/blog/clinical-negligence/nhs-trust-charged-with-corporate-manslaughter#:~:text=Criminal%20prosecution%20of%20medical%20professionals,(brought%20against%20the%20organisation).

"The Crown Prosecution Service announced in April 2015 that for the first time they are charging an NHS Trust for corporate manslaughter, a criminal offence, following the tragic death of a young mother at the Pembury Hospital in October 2012."

As it happened, the trust (Maidstone & Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust) was acquitted after a judge found that there was no case to answer. But the prosecution still took place.