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Arcturus Running Rampant?
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SAGE have pronounced, the public should get their masks out again -
https:/
would you be complying?
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would you be complying?
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I'll still stick to a firm 'no'. I was in Bangkok a couple of years before Covid struck and on the skytrain all the youngsters were in their own world, masked and unresponsive. I don't speak Thai, well not more than a few words, but the only people communicating at all were myself and 3 old, unmasked Thais. By gestures and facial expressions we managed to communicate. The only people who did - out of a crowded trainful of people.
Life isn't safe. Accept it and be human. Otherwise it is only a half-life. I have lived longer than you, I think. Please accept what I say.
Life isn't safe. Accept it and be human. Otherwise it is only a half-life. I have lived longer than you, I think. Please accept what I say.
In that I am speaking the truth. Sorry, apologies, it sounded odd, to say the least now I read it, but I was most struck by the way people had ceased to communicate and this lack of communication should be hindered, not helped.
Anyway, I have some research to be getting on with. We'll have to agree to disagree. :)
Anyway, I have some research to be getting on with. We'll have to agree to disagree. :)
//The subvariant has been spreading across the globe, causing mask laws to be reintroduced in India, as five Brits have died with it.//
A lot more Brits died with flu in the last covid panic and they were mostly elderly with underlying health problems like myself. ( I didn't die though. I was reincarnated and magically returned to Answerbank :-) Somehow it suited the government's agenda to write them off as deaths attributed to Covid. I will not be conned again and buy into their nonsense. Apparently there were fatal casualty's caused by RTC's that were attributed to the alleged covid deaths total after the actual RTC. Just part of the scare tactic.
A lot more Brits died with flu in the last covid panic and they were mostly elderly with underlying health problems like myself. ( I didn't die though. I was reincarnated and magically returned to Answerbank :-) Somehow it suited the government's agenda to write them off as deaths attributed to Covid. I will not be conned again and buy into their nonsense. Apparently there were fatal casualty's caused by RTC's that were attributed to the alleged covid deaths total after the actual RTC. Just part of the scare tactic.
//if you aren’t in a situation where your physical or mental health won’t actually allow you to wear one then i would perhaps suggest you need to be less of a baby//
I’m not personally in that position. My objection to face coverings is not that they threaten my health. It Is that they dehumanise people and they make it difficult for some to communicate. As well as that, despite the findings in your links, the Cochrane report is far more extensive and far less conclusive (in fact the thing that can be said with the greatest certainty is that the evidence is, at best, inconclusive). Then of course there is the problem with the design and treatment of the masks, not to mention appropriate wearing. These problems make any advantage they may provide as highly unlikely. But to suggest that anybody who resists wearing them is baby-like is a little, shall we be kind and say, ridiculous.
//…such viruses are furthermore much easier to contain if action is taken early on.//
Respiratory viruses cannot be “contained”. The only way to do that would be to isolate every human being from every other human being. Clearly neither practical, possible nor desirable. The only thing that “preventative” measures do is to delay transmission. The clearest illustration of that can be seen in the “Zero Covid” approach taken by China. They endured the most Draconian so-called preventative measures for the best part of three years. Covid still spread but eventually the measures became unsustainable. As soon as they were eased the virus spread rapidly and as many people contracted it in a short period of time who would have done so earlier on.
So where is the UK now? It has probably the greatest level of resistance that it has had since the virus first appeared, achieved through natural immunity (built up by exposure to the virus) and vaccination. The virus is still here and it, like many other illnesses, will cause severe symptoms in some and regretfully deaths as well. Bad stuff happens. But Covid has now slipped to number five or six in the list of causes of death.
//..mask wearing however is a very easy thing for the vast majority of healthy adults and significantly reduces the risk of transmission.//
Apart from among the vulnerable (who can take their own precautions as I outlined) there is simply no need to reduce the risk of transmission. In fact, suppressing viral infections among the population suppresses the general immunity that is continually being established (against all viruses, not solely Covid)
//…it isn’t up to you whether or not those people should be protected… especially not if the measures extend to something very simple like use of masks//
There is nothing to prevent anybody who wants to from wearing a face covering. As I said in my first post, they would be well advised to wear of FFP2/3 standard as one made from an old T-shirt is all but useless. But there should be no question of mandating their wearing again. Even if the evidence of their effectiveness was incontrovertible (and it most certainly isn’t) there is simply no justification for such a measure. Objecting to wearing one is not the actions of babies, it’s the actions of people wanting to lead their lives normally.
I’m not personally in that position. My objection to face coverings is not that they threaten my health. It Is that they dehumanise people and they make it difficult for some to communicate. As well as that, despite the findings in your links, the Cochrane report is far more extensive and far less conclusive (in fact the thing that can be said with the greatest certainty is that the evidence is, at best, inconclusive). Then of course there is the problem with the design and treatment of the masks, not to mention appropriate wearing. These problems make any advantage they may provide as highly unlikely. But to suggest that anybody who resists wearing them is baby-like is a little, shall we be kind and say, ridiculous.
//…such viruses are furthermore much easier to contain if action is taken early on.//
Respiratory viruses cannot be “contained”. The only way to do that would be to isolate every human being from every other human being. Clearly neither practical, possible nor desirable. The only thing that “preventative” measures do is to delay transmission. The clearest illustration of that can be seen in the “Zero Covid” approach taken by China. They endured the most Draconian so-called preventative measures for the best part of three years. Covid still spread but eventually the measures became unsustainable. As soon as they were eased the virus spread rapidly and as many people contracted it in a short period of time who would have done so earlier on.
So where is the UK now? It has probably the greatest level of resistance that it has had since the virus first appeared, achieved through natural immunity (built up by exposure to the virus) and vaccination. The virus is still here and it, like many other illnesses, will cause severe symptoms in some and regretfully deaths as well. Bad stuff happens. But Covid has now slipped to number five or six in the list of causes of death.
//..mask wearing however is a very easy thing for the vast majority of healthy adults and significantly reduces the risk of transmission.//
Apart from among the vulnerable (who can take their own precautions as I outlined) there is simply no need to reduce the risk of transmission. In fact, suppressing viral infections among the population suppresses the general immunity that is continually being established (against all viruses, not solely Covid)
//…it isn’t up to you whether or not those people should be protected… especially not if the measures extend to something very simple like use of masks//
There is nothing to prevent anybody who wants to from wearing a face covering. As I said in my first post, they would be well advised to wear of FFP2/3 standard as one made from an old T-shirt is all but useless. But there should be no question of mandating their wearing again. Even if the evidence of their effectiveness was incontrovertible (and it most certainly isn’t) there is simply no justification for such a measure. Objecting to wearing one is not the actions of babies, it’s the actions of people wanting to lead their lives normally.
“ Untitled has lost the argument.”
erm you have not actually made one deskdiary… you are hollering that your horse has won when it hasn’t even left the gate lol
i am sorry that your assertions about lockdown cannot withstand the most rudimentary curiosity but an argument it is not
“ the Cochrane report is far more extensive and far less conclusive (in fact the thing that can be said with the greatest certainty is that the evidence is, at best, inconclusive)”
the cochrane review’s conclusion was that the sample of randomized controlled trials that they studied yielded inconclusive results… the links i provide however suggest very strongly that use of masks significantly reduced transmission where it had been implemented… and my last one tested different mask types… your earlier assertion that only certain masks are effective does not appear to be correct
“ Respiratory viruses cannot be “contained”. ”
their spread can be inhibited, i would call that containment
“ But Covid has now slipped to number five or six in the list of causes of death.”
and we should all be very glad that this has happened… it is however quite possible for new variants to put us all back to square one so a tiny but effective like wearing a mask does not seem like much to ask for most people.
“ Apart from among the vulnerable (who can take their own precautions as I outlined) there is simply no need to reduce the risk of transmission. ”
the vulnerable cannot protect themselves if nobody else does anything
“ Objecting to wearing one is not the actions of babies, it’s the actions of people wanting to lead their lives normally.”
wearing a mask does not require an otherwise healthy person to put anything in your body, shoulder any significant expense or do anything of any significant physical difficulty… it is quite literally the least you could possibly do. If that really is too much for someone to bear then i feel quite justified in telling them to put on their big-boy pants
erm you have not actually made one deskdiary… you are hollering that your horse has won when it hasn’t even left the gate lol
i am sorry that your assertions about lockdown cannot withstand the most rudimentary curiosity but an argument it is not
“ the Cochrane report is far more extensive and far less conclusive (in fact the thing that can be said with the greatest certainty is that the evidence is, at best, inconclusive)”
the cochrane review’s conclusion was that the sample of randomized controlled trials that they studied yielded inconclusive results… the links i provide however suggest very strongly that use of masks significantly reduced transmission where it had been implemented… and my last one tested different mask types… your earlier assertion that only certain masks are effective does not appear to be correct
“ Respiratory viruses cannot be “contained”. ”
their spread can be inhibited, i would call that containment
“ But Covid has now slipped to number five or six in the list of causes of death.”
and we should all be very glad that this has happened… it is however quite possible for new variants to put us all back to square one so a tiny but effective like wearing a mask does not seem like much to ask for most people.
“ Apart from among the vulnerable (who can take their own precautions as I outlined) there is simply no need to reduce the risk of transmission. ”
the vulnerable cannot protect themselves if nobody else does anything
“ Objecting to wearing one is not the actions of babies, it’s the actions of people wanting to lead their lives normally.”
wearing a mask does not require an otherwise healthy person to put anything in your body, shoulder any significant expense or do anything of any significant physical difficulty… it is quite literally the least you could possibly do. If that really is too much for someone to bear then i feel quite justified in telling them to put on their big-boy pants
//…their spread can be inhibited, i would call that containment//
They cannot (unless everybody is isolated from everybody else – permanently). All that can be said is that the spread can be delayed. Everybody, probably worldwide but certainly is this country, is likely to be exposed to the SARS COV-2 virus multiple times in their lifetimes (unless they isolate themselves permanently). Just how their bodies deal with that exposure will vary from no symptoms whatsoever to death. To be clear, isolation means complete isolation; no family “bubbles”, no “rule of 6” or any other of the nonsensical arrangements that were variously bandied about during the Covid fiasco.
//…the vulnerable cannot protect themselves if nobody else does anything//
Yes they can. As far as face coverings go they can use FFP2/3 standard masks which, if worn and treated correctly, will give them more than 99% protection from airborne viruses. There is no need for anybody else to do anything for that to be achieved. If that is insufficient for them, they can isolate themselves away from everybody else as far as possible.
//…it is however quite possible for new variants to put us all back to square one so a tiny but effective like wearing a mask does not seem like much to ask for most people.//
The risk of new variants of viruses evolving is constant; they all evolve and mainly they do so in order that they do not kill their hosts. Therefore, the question arising from your statement is “for how long do you consider this should go on?” Every few weeks a “variant of concern” is identified along with the usual bloodcurdling warnings from the experts that masking up is necessary. As I have explained, reducing general exposure to viruses (of all types) is not beneficial to the human immune system. One of the unwanted side effects of the attempts to do so during the pandemic was large numbers of people going down with ailments that previously their immune system would have coped with.
//..wearing a mask does not require an otherwise healthy person to put anything in your body, shoulder any significant expense or do anything of any significant physical difficulty…//
No it doesn’t involve any of that and we’ll leave aside the general inconvenience of wearing a face mask and the undesirability of doing so. However, as I mentioned in a few threads during the pandemic, my cousin is the nursing director (AKA “Matron”) in a large general hospital. She has spent more that 35 years in nursing, much of it in A&E and theatre work. She has forgotten more about PPE than most of us will ever know. She was appalled by the mask mandate which compelled people to wear an unsuitable and ineffective face covering when many of them did not adhere to the proper discipline that goes along with it (e.g. wearing it properly, not stuffing it in your pocket, hand washing before handling it, changing it regularly). The plain fact is that the majority of people who wore flimsy face coverings were providing no particular benefits to themselves or others and in fact were usually jeopardising their own safety.
//…it is quite literally the least you could possibly do.//
But the question really is, why should you do it?
They cannot (unless everybody is isolated from everybody else – permanently). All that can be said is that the spread can be delayed. Everybody, probably worldwide but certainly is this country, is likely to be exposed to the SARS COV-2 virus multiple times in their lifetimes (unless they isolate themselves permanently). Just how their bodies deal with that exposure will vary from no symptoms whatsoever to death. To be clear, isolation means complete isolation; no family “bubbles”, no “rule of 6” or any other of the nonsensical arrangements that were variously bandied about during the Covid fiasco.
//…the vulnerable cannot protect themselves if nobody else does anything//
Yes they can. As far as face coverings go they can use FFP2/3 standard masks which, if worn and treated correctly, will give them more than 99% protection from airborne viruses. There is no need for anybody else to do anything for that to be achieved. If that is insufficient for them, they can isolate themselves away from everybody else as far as possible.
//…it is however quite possible for new variants to put us all back to square one so a tiny but effective like wearing a mask does not seem like much to ask for most people.//
The risk of new variants of viruses evolving is constant; they all evolve and mainly they do so in order that they do not kill their hosts. Therefore, the question arising from your statement is “for how long do you consider this should go on?” Every few weeks a “variant of concern” is identified along with the usual bloodcurdling warnings from the experts that masking up is necessary. As I have explained, reducing general exposure to viruses (of all types) is not beneficial to the human immune system. One of the unwanted side effects of the attempts to do so during the pandemic was large numbers of people going down with ailments that previously their immune system would have coped with.
//..wearing a mask does not require an otherwise healthy person to put anything in your body, shoulder any significant expense or do anything of any significant physical difficulty…//
No it doesn’t involve any of that and we’ll leave aside the general inconvenience of wearing a face mask and the undesirability of doing so. However, as I mentioned in a few threads during the pandemic, my cousin is the nursing director (AKA “Matron”) in a large general hospital. She has spent more that 35 years in nursing, much of it in A&E and theatre work. She has forgotten more about PPE than most of us will ever know. She was appalled by the mask mandate which compelled people to wear an unsuitable and ineffective face covering when many of them did not adhere to the proper discipline that goes along with it (e.g. wearing it properly, not stuffing it in your pocket, hand washing before handling it, changing it regularly). The plain fact is that the majority of people who wore flimsy face coverings were providing no particular benefits to themselves or others and in fact were usually jeopardising their own safety.
//…it is quite literally the least you could possibly do.//
But the question really is, why should you do it?
load of old pony, I won't be wearing one, I have a bit of a cough my well even be arcturus for all i know. we must stop pandering to the gromits of this world who love these crises and want them to continue as long as possible. Covid ain't over but it's ability to disrupt normal day to day living is. Rejoice and get on with it.
oh dear dear
please take NJ's pensees on covid with a pinch of salt
.
As far as face coverings go they can use FFP2/3 standard masks which, if worn and treated correctly, will give them more than 99% protection from airborne viruses.
https:/
not quite - mask made from the same material as FFP2 CAN give protection up to 90%. see article
quite a different thing
1959 - Lumley showed at Porton Down masks didnt work
Ah ! that is much more like it
I havent bothered to test any other statement
please take NJ's pensees on covid with a pinch of salt
.
As far as face coverings go they can use FFP2/3 standard masks which, if worn and treated correctly, will give them more than 99% protection from airborne viruses.
https:/
not quite - mask made from the same material as FFP2 CAN give protection up to 90%. see article
quite a different thing
1959 - Lumley showed at Porton Down masks didnt work
Ah ! that is much more like it
I havent bothered to test any other statement
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