The Perils Of Privatisation - Part X
News27 mins ago
Decriminalise All Drugs?
112 Answers
the Scottish government wants personal possession and use of all drugs (including class A) to be treated as a healthcare issue rather than a criminal one
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notwithstanding recent number decreases, Scotland still has the highest number of recorded drug deaths in all Europe
Drug laws are reserved to Westminster, but Scotland can legislate on healthcare issues.
Is this the right approach? or will it cause more problems than it solves?
https:/
notwithstanding recent number decreases, Scotland still has the highest number of recorded drug deaths in all Europe
Drug laws are reserved to Westminster, but Scotland can legislate on healthcare issues.
Is this the right approach? or will it cause more problems than it solves?
Answers
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Oh, erm, hold onto that thought...
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as iv said legalise cannabis, spliffs in packets or hand roll like traditonal baccy fags, the tax on would be astronomical at the start,
but as i said previously, it would peter out, i know lot's of older folks
from the day ermm, who still smoke it and goto work own businesses etc some retired, you will always get some who will fall through the cracks not unlike alcoholics who never thought thye would become like that and some in denial, you know..i only have a few err im fine etc, is what it is, you could try and ban alcohol baccy etc, thin end of the wedge, people will always get it anyway, legalise it really is the only way, you then have some control of quality and the bonus is tax.
but as i said previously, it would peter out, i know lot's of older folks
from the day ermm, who still smoke it and goto work own businesses etc some retired, you will always get some who will fall through the cracks not unlike alcoholics who never thought thye would become like that and some in denial, you know..i only have a few err im fine etc, is what it is, you could try and ban alcohol baccy etc, thin end of the wedge, people will always get it anyway, legalise it really is the only way, you then have some control of quality and the bonus is tax.
douglas - // Does the government fund HM Revenue and Customs to stop a 'drop in the ocean' landing at the end of your street?
There may be more than you imagine but if it doesn't fit your Utopian view then that's okay too. //
I am perfectly happy to accept your derision of my argument, on the condition that you can counter it with one of equal weight, argued as fully, and as viable as mine is.
Naturally, since the current 'War On Drugs' (chuckle) continues to prove itself a monumental waste of time and money, we can safely discount that as an option.
Anything to offer?
There may be more than you imagine but if it doesn't fit your Utopian view then that's okay too. //
I am perfectly happy to accept your derision of my argument, on the condition that you can counter it with one of equal weight, argued as fully, and as viable as mine is.
Naturally, since the current 'War On Drugs' (chuckle) continues to prove itself a monumental waste of time and money, we can safely discount that as an option.
Anything to offer?
it does not seem likely to me that decriminalising drugs would reduce the number of people who take them… i think it that it would increase enormously as people indulge their curiosity… i probably would!
but more drug use would have consequences. crime would probably go up i think in the short-medium term… not just because of more addicts but also because criminal gangs losing money would be at each other’s throats
i agree with decriminalisation but let us be realistic about the consequences!!!
but more drug use would have consequences. crime would probably go up i think in the short-medium term… not just because of more addicts but also because criminal gangs losing money would be at each other’s throats
i agree with decriminalisation but let us be realistic about the consequences!!!
The decriminalisation of drugs is one of the most stupid ideas ever thought up. To take it step by step. If Mr Hughes, or anyone else pro-legalisation, would like to comment on each on of the following:
1. the increase in road casualties as people drive around high on whatever they take? There aren’t enough police to catch drink / drug drivers at the moment.
2. The impact on the economy through the use of drugs whilst people are working.
3. The impact in the NHS directly through illness caused by drug taking and indirectly (road traffic accidents, accidents at work etc etc).
4. Drug tourism - people visiting the UK (or England depending on which nation adopts it) just to ‘do drugs’.
Anyone?
1. the increase in road casualties as people drive around high on whatever they take? There aren’t enough police to catch drink / drug drivers at the moment.
2. The impact on the economy through the use of drugs whilst people are working.
3. The impact in the NHS directly through illness caused by drug taking and indirectly (road traffic accidents, accidents at work etc etc).
4. Drug tourism - people visiting the UK (or England depending on which nation adopts it) just to ‘do drugs’.
Anyone?
Zacs - // The decriminalisation of drugs is one of the most stupid ideas ever thought up. To take it step by step. If Mr Hughes, or anyone else pro-legalisation, would like to comment on each on of the following:
1. the increase in road casualties as people drive around high on whatever they take? There aren’t enough police to catch drink / drug drivers at the moment.
2. The impact on the economy through the use of drugs whilst people are working.
3. The impact in the NHS directly through illness caused by drug taking and indirectly (road traffic accidents, accidents at work etc etc).
4. Drug tourism - people visiting the UK (or England depending on which nation adopts it) just to ‘do drugs’. //
Some, possibly all of those scenarios may come to pass.
// 1. the increase in road casualties as people drive around high on whatever they take? There aren’t enough police to catch drink / drug drivers at the moment. //
// 2. The impact on the economy through the use of drugs whilst people are working. //
A presumption that people do not already consume drugs while they are working, and that there will be in an increase caused by legalisation, the second of which is an unfounded assumption.
// 3. The impact in the NHS directly through illness caused by drug taking and indirectly (road traffic accidents, accidents at work etc etc). //
//4. Drug tourism - people visiting the UK (or England depending on which nation adopts it) just to ‘do drugs’. //
Another unfounded assumption - there are plenty of countries with far more lax drug laws than ours, and they are not currently overrun by 'drug tourists' - yet again an unfounded assumption.
It appears that all of your argument is based on a doom-laden imagination, some of which may well come to be true, but it cannot be any worse than the current loss of billions of pounds in a 'war' we can never ever win.
We have to break the circle, and it will not be easy, but I do believe that the long-term benefits will be worthwhile.
We are simply assimilating different drugs into the legal drug culture we already have, and which seems to work reasonably well.
Nothing is perfect - one third of the bodies pulled out of vehicle fatalities are over the drink-drive limit, but people will always be stupid, and irresponsible.
But following a 'war on drugs' policy that has singularly failed even to make a dent in the problem, while costing billions of wasted pounds, is worse, it's giving thought and money to a failed system, and that is worse than irresponsible.
It won't happen in my lifetime - the notion of drug legalisation is political suicide, and no politician in the current system would dream of endorsing it and expecting support.
But plenty of things that have been illegal have been legalised with the greater good in mind - in this case, the millions of people who do not take drugs, but have their tax pounds diverted from useful spending into a vanity project that fails on a daily basis.
But simply hand wringing and imagining ways it won't work has never solved anything, and never will.
1. the increase in road casualties as people drive around high on whatever they take? There aren’t enough police to catch drink / drug drivers at the moment.
2. The impact on the economy through the use of drugs whilst people are working.
3. The impact in the NHS directly through illness caused by drug taking and indirectly (road traffic accidents, accidents at work etc etc).
4. Drug tourism - people visiting the UK (or England depending on which nation adopts it) just to ‘do drugs’. //
Some, possibly all of those scenarios may come to pass.
// 1. the increase in road casualties as people drive around high on whatever they take? There aren’t enough police to catch drink / drug drivers at the moment. //
// 2. The impact on the economy through the use of drugs whilst people are working. //
A presumption that people do not already consume drugs while they are working, and that there will be in an increase caused by legalisation, the second of which is an unfounded assumption.
// 3. The impact in the NHS directly through illness caused by drug taking and indirectly (road traffic accidents, accidents at work etc etc). //
//4. Drug tourism - people visiting the UK (or England depending on which nation adopts it) just to ‘do drugs’. //
Another unfounded assumption - there are plenty of countries with far more lax drug laws than ours, and they are not currently overrun by 'drug tourists' - yet again an unfounded assumption.
It appears that all of your argument is based on a doom-laden imagination, some of which may well come to be true, but it cannot be any worse than the current loss of billions of pounds in a 'war' we can never ever win.
We have to break the circle, and it will not be easy, but I do believe that the long-term benefits will be worthwhile.
We are simply assimilating different drugs into the legal drug culture we already have, and which seems to work reasonably well.
Nothing is perfect - one third of the bodies pulled out of vehicle fatalities are over the drink-drive limit, but people will always be stupid, and irresponsible.
But following a 'war on drugs' policy that has singularly failed even to make a dent in the problem, while costing billions of wasted pounds, is worse, it's giving thought and money to a failed system, and that is worse than irresponsible.
It won't happen in my lifetime - the notion of drug legalisation is political suicide, and no politician in the current system would dream of endorsing it and expecting support.
But plenty of things that have been illegal have been legalised with the greater good in mind - in this case, the millions of people who do not take drugs, but have their tax pounds diverted from useful spending into a vanity project that fails on a daily basis.
But simply hand wringing and imagining ways it won't work has never solved anything, and never will.
'Political suicide', thinking the unthinkable and then implementing it.
See also Brexit, lockdown, doling out high-end military hardware to fight a proxy war, messing about with the state pension and benefits, subsidising cowboy power company shareholders, water companies, banks and so on and so forth.
Why not mood and mind altering substances too?
See also Brexit, lockdown, doling out high-end military hardware to fight a proxy war, messing about with the state pension and benefits, subsidising cowboy power company shareholders, water companies, banks and so on and so forth.
Why not mood and mind altering substances too?
rowanwitch - // It would need to be combined with state provision of the drugs too. That reduces the incentive to fund the habit with criminality. Not going to happen //
Exactly.
The essence of controlling anything that can harm people is to put a set of rules in place.
Yes there will always be people who will break them, criminals will find a way round them.
But surely ninety-per-cent control for the government, and ten-per-cent control for the criminals is a more attractive ratio than one-hundred-per-cent for the criminals, together with the massive crime wave used to fund habits, and the sheer immoral waste of time and money on the 'war on drugs' that we persist with, even in the face of abject failure.
It will be a very long time coming, but hopefully common sense is going to prevail eventually.
Exactly.
The essence of controlling anything that can harm people is to put a set of rules in place.
Yes there will always be people who will break them, criminals will find a way round them.
But surely ninety-per-cent control for the government, and ten-per-cent control for the criminals is a more attractive ratio than one-hundred-per-cent for the criminals, together with the massive crime wave used to fund habits, and the sheer immoral waste of time and money on the 'war on drugs' that we persist with, even in the face of abject failure.
It will be a very long time coming, but hopefully common sense is going to prevail eventually.
Mankind has ALWAYS taken drugs, whether legal or illegal.
What makes one drug legal (alcohol and cigarettes been the biggest legal killers) over another drug, say heroin or cocaine, illegal?
Their are certain animals that seek out a natural high from ripened fruit etc. Should we consider such animals immoral?
Its not a matter of law or morality but understanding.
The opposite of addiction is NOT sobriety but connection.
Addicts are disconnected.
Am I speaking from personal experience?
More than likely!
I'm 57 and NEVER felt like I fitted into anywhere in life.
thats not a sulk or a poor old me type of thing.
Ive genuinely never felt part of a group/tribe/anything.
Always been a loner.
What makes one drug legal (alcohol and cigarettes been the biggest legal killers) over another drug, say heroin or cocaine, illegal?
Their are certain animals that seek out a natural high from ripened fruit etc. Should we consider such animals immoral?
Its not a matter of law or morality but understanding.
The opposite of addiction is NOT sobriety but connection.
Addicts are disconnected.
Am I speaking from personal experience?
More than likely!
I'm 57 and NEVER felt like I fitted into anywhere in life.
thats not a sulk or a poor old me type of thing.
Ive genuinely never felt part of a group/tribe/anything.
Always been a loner.
naildit - // Its not a matter of law or morality but understanding. //
I entirely agree.
Until society stops taking this 'Heavens to Betsys!!' attitude to drugs, and the high-handed attitude to people who use them, we are never going to get to grips with the drug problems of this country.
As I mentioned earlier, in the 1960's the 'Establishment' waved its furled umbrellas and got hot under its suit collars at the activities of 'young people' and their wayward ways of enjoying themselves.
Unexpectedly, when those same young people grew up and became the Establishment, the endorsed exactly the views and attitudes they had rebelled against.
That's why we now have generation after generation of prurient moralistic ignorance, and a willful determination to pretend that the answer to rampant criminality based around drug culture, is to pretend that we can moralise and criminalise it out of existence.
And as I have also said, but it bears repeating - that approach, the laughable 'war on drugs' continues to catch votes, and do precisely nothing except waste billions of pounds, because its direction and attitudes are entirely wrong.
The change will come, just not yet.
I entirely agree.
Until society stops taking this 'Heavens to Betsys!!' attitude to drugs, and the high-handed attitude to people who use them, we are never going to get to grips with the drug problems of this country.
As I mentioned earlier, in the 1960's the 'Establishment' waved its furled umbrellas and got hot under its suit collars at the activities of 'young people' and their wayward ways of enjoying themselves.
Unexpectedly, when those same young people grew up and became the Establishment, the endorsed exactly the views and attitudes they had rebelled against.
That's why we now have generation after generation of prurient moralistic ignorance, and a willful determination to pretend that the answer to rampant criminality based around drug culture, is to pretend that we can moralise and criminalise it out of existence.
And as I have also said, but it bears repeating - that approach, the laughable 'war on drugs' continues to catch votes, and do precisely nothing except waste billions of pounds, because its direction and attitudes are entirely wrong.
The change will come, just not yet.
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