Proof That Only The Good Die Young

[Untitled]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/henry-kissinger-war-criminal-dead-1234804748/
 

the monstrous henry kissinger has finally died...  having never been to jail for his appaling crimes against humanity 

bombing of cambodia 

chilean coup 

east timor genocide 

bangladeshi genocide 

all brought about or encouraged by this vicious monster. spare a thought for his victims today - he certainly never did

[jno]

oh I never liked him, DTC, as far as I'm concerned bombing Cambodia - a country the USA was not at war with - was a war crime pure and simple. But he knew what he was doing.

[jourdain2]

I think that this is a horrible post.   No matter what Kissinger did or didn't do.  He's died. I know someone who knew him - she says he was a decent man.  There's politics and there's humanity. Condemn the politics by all means, but remember the human being.

[DTCwordfan]

exactly jourdain - and, jno, we probably don't have the balanced picture from how/what the Yanks were seeing/thinking at the time, especially as to the sleeping/awakening beast to the North.

[fripfrip]

Like him or loathe him he won the nobel peace prize.

[fender62]

you could say he could see the big picture on world politics, for good or bad, like or loath him.

https://sais.jhu.edu/kissinger/about/legacy

[Untitled]

"I know someone who knew him - she says he was a decent man.  "

she is wrong... it's like saying hitler was ok because he loved dogs 

[Untitled]

"Condemn the politics by all means, but remember the human being."

this human being did monstrous things. if he wanted to be remembered fondly then he should have been a better person. he had 100 years of life and all the power and wealth a person could ever hope for... he used it to wage slaughter, enable genocide and bolster fascism. frankly i hope they have to put a fence around his grave. 
 

there's an anecdote about gore vidal visiting the sistine chapel with kissinger and noticing that kissinger was looking at the section of The Last Judgement depicting hell. vidal said he was looking for an apartment!

[Khandro]

^^ You ought to try reading something other than Rollingstone magazine, there are journals for grown-ups too you know.

[Khandro]

.....'

 One particularly revolting obituary, in Rolling Stone magazine, is headlined ‘Henry Kissinger, War Criminal Beloved by America’s Ruling Class, Finally Dies.’

Yet here is a man who in many ways fashioned the world we live in today, and who also saved us from a much worse one. When he was appointed National Security Adviser by Richard Nixon in January 1969, the United States was losing the cold war, utterly split domestically over Vietnam, on the retreat across Africa, Asia and Latin America, and failing to show leadership to the rest of the free world.

The next four years saw full-scale war in the Middle East, Opec’s quadrupling of the oil price, the Watergate scandal, Palestinian hijackings and the Munich Olympics massacre, West Germany pursuing its own ‘Ostpolitik’ appeasement of the USSR, a Pakistani civil war. Throughout, Henry provided the American leadership necessary to keep the western alliance from disintegrating........'

Andrew Roberts (historian) writing in The Spectator today

[Ellipsis]

Obviously there were some good things and some bad things about Henry Kissinger.

> https://sais.jhu.edu/kissinger/about/legacy

In the above article, Niall Ferguson likes some of the good things. Christopher Hitchens wrote a whole book about the bad things, here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trial_of_Henry_Kissinger

The Trial of Henry Kissinger is a 2001 book by Christopher Hitchens which examines the alleged war crimes of Henry Kissinger, the National Security Advisor and later, the U.S. Secretary of State for Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. Acting in the role of prosecutor, Hitchens presents Kissinger's involvement in a series of alleged war crimes in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Bangladesh, Chile, Cyprus and East Timor.

In the words of Hitchens, Kissinger deserves prosecution "for war crimes, for crimes against humanity, and for offenses against common or customary or international law, including conspiracy to commit murder, kidnap, and torture." He further calls him "a stupendous liar with a remarkable memory."

The book takes the form of a prosecutorial document, as Hitchens limits his critique to such charges as he believes might stand up in an international court of law following precedents set at Nuremberg and elsewhere. These link Kissinger to war casualties in Vietnam, massacres in Bangladesh and Timor, and assassinations in Chile, Cyprus, and Washington, D.C.

The book takes a very negative view of Kissinger, calling for Americans to not ignore Kissinger's record. In the author's words, "They can either persist in averting their gaze from the egregious impunity enjoyed by a notorious war criminal and lawbreaker, or they can become seized by the exalted standards to which they continually hold everyone else."

[Khandro]

But then Christopher Hitchens (darling of AB atheists) was, by the time he wrote that, a bit of a nutter.

[Untitled]

andrew roberts has made a bit of a career praising some of history's tyrants so it is not surprising that kissinger's corpse should attract that particular fly

the fact that the USA killed hundreds of thousands of civilians in cambodia is indisputable... it is also indisputable that kissinger was not just a frontman but the principal architect of that atrocity... it is also indisputable that without his intervention in chile the evil fascist regime in that country would not have come about... case closed frankly. no amount of personal "niceness" or whitewashing makes up for it.

and that's not even accounting for bangladesh or east timor....

[Khandro]

Have you noticed how Marxists & all the assorted lefties like to blame someone for all the problems of the world? 

The assertion that one man, in this case Henry Kissinger, is responsible for all the wars and travails of the 20th century is quite risible.

No one man, not even the US president who is commander in chief of the armed forces, can declare war alone, the US Constitution divides war powers between Congress and the president. Only Congress can declare war and appropriate military funding, & Henry Kissinger most certainly cannot be held individually responsible.

[Untitled]

i did not say he was responsible for all of them did I khandro... i just said that he was responsible for the ones he personally instigated and organised (cambodia and chile)... i also think he carries some responsibility for atrocities he encouraged and permitted (east timor, bangladesh) 

he was up to his elbows in blood. an evil man and a friend to fascism. 

[Untitled]

"No one man, not even the US president who is commander in chief of the armed forces, can declare war alone"

The USA never declared war on cambodia at all... it was conducted in secret... the activities of the CIA were likewise beyond accountability to congress 

[Peter Pedant]

 as far as I'm concerned bombing Cambodia - a country the USA was not at war with

o come on, the ho chi minh trail went into Cambodia, with their connivance

AND liberation by Ho's forces wasnt exactly liberation as we know it - how  many million Viets became refugees?

 

[ynnafymmi]

@16.48.And you wont like me saying it Peter.But one of your best postings on this site.

[Peter Pedant]

"No one man, not even the US president who is commander in chief of the armed forces, can declare war alone"

that is why FDR had to wait for pearl harbor

AND - in 1970 the admin were denying they were at war - big thing there "armed conflict may not equal war"

[Peter Pedant]

@16.48.And you wont like me saying it Peter.

Peter simpers and blushes prettily...( no no he murmurs)

I will take praise from any quarter, even a mod !  ( ter daah!)

Thich Tri Quang the unburned monk - was sequestered in a far lamasery in SaiGon after the liberation he worked so hard for

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Tr%C3%AD_Quang

and Kissinger's co-conspirator Le Duc Tho ( the French thought he was nobility, but it was lay dook toe ( tones not shown)) - his star similarly dimmed after the Americans left

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%AA_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c_Th%E1%BB%8D

[Khandro]

I've just been checking that post of mine;

"No one man, not even the US president who is commander in chief of the armed forces, can declare war alone"

& it's not strictly true: the potus can in an emergency declare war for a limited period of a few days.

Obviously, if someone dropped a bomb on the US, he shouldn't have to wait for Congress to meet.

That may have come about after what PP said about Pearl Harbour - just guessing