Is Weeing In A Layby Littering?

[naomi24]

//When a 69-year-old with a weakened prostate parked in a layby to have a "discreet" wee he ended up being handed an £88 fine for "littering". While many might consider urinating in public - however discreet - unpleasant or antisocial, is it actually littering?//

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67615231

On production of a letter from his doctor, the fine was subsequently cancelled, but the question remains.   Littering?   I would say 'no', but considering his condition I would advise him to carry a bottle made specially for the purpose in future.

[ichkeria]

A "trucker's buddy" indeed.

Our son had one of those which I mistook for a bottle of fruit juice. Luckily the misunderstanding only got as far as "Where on earth did we buy that"?

[Old_Geezer]

If you can't pick it up, it ain't litter.

[Ken4155]

Ionce came out of a pub and stopped tro continue a conversation with two friends who were ging in the opposite direction. The pub closed, doors locked and, yep, i got a sudden urge to 'go'. Because one of the 'friends' was a woman, i popped round the corner of the pub to a unlit area and began to relieve myself against the wall - just as a cop car was passing and, of course, it's headlights picked me out.

The cop called me over and was abut to give me an 'on the spot' fine when he got an urgent call on his radio. Lucky me.

Not so lucky this poor chap. As you say, Naomi, he'd be best to take a bottle with him in future. Definitely not littering though, imho.

[Ken4155]

I've just been out with the dog and my hands are freezing - forgot my gloves are in another coat. Just re-read my post and see there are quite a few typos - 3 in the first sentence.

Note to self; do not try typing with cold hands.

[Old_Geezer]

They wouldn't have been cold had you peed on them !

[barry1010]

I keep portable urinals in the car.  Most men I know with prostate problems do.  Be prepared.

[barry1010]

This raises another point.  If peeing in the street is littering, could a person be fined for littering if they were taken ill and vomited?

 

[dustypuss]

Lucozade. Bottle can come in handy.

[david small]

Ridiculous jobs worth merchant.

[jno]

it used to be "depositing offensive matter" but I don't know if that's an offence any more. I don't recall anyone prosecuting Paula Radcliffe during the London marathon.

[barry1010]

Was it on the public highway though?  The road was closed to pedestrians and traffic at the time.

[Lie-in King]

Not littering.

[Canary42]

It's bloody ridiculous - dogs can do it anywhere, but humans no.

I have often urinated in public places (discreetly) because we have an enormous inadequacy of public toilets in this country and in my condition when you have to go, you have to go.   

Two of the more unlikely places :-

1. Richmond Station platform (the loos are frequently closed) - had to be careful of CCTV cover.

2. Off Hayling Bridge (into the sea, so I suppose that's OK as it's where the water companies dump untreated sewage)

"Dumping litter" isn't the only prosecution risk, "indecent exposure" is another and you get put on the sex offender register for that.  Our judiciary are just too sanctimonious and bloody-minded to show any compassion. "Jobsworth" says it all.

 

[New Judge]

"Our judiciary are just too sanctimonious and bloody-minded to show any compassion. "Jobsworth" says it all."

The difficulty with that statement is that the "judiciary" were not involved with this incident at all. A penalty was handed out by one of the council's contractors and rescinded by them when a medical note was produced.

That aside, there is little doubt that had this gone to court, with a proper argument made he would not have been convicted under the legislation that was used to charge him. (As an aside, the BBC article cites the wrong section. It is actually s87 which creates the offence of littering and s88 provides for fixed penalties for that offence). 

The statute itself goes on (s98 "Definitions") to define litter to some degree:

 “Litter” includes—
(a)the discarded ends of cigarettes, cigars and like products, and
(b)discarded chewing-gum and the discarded remains of other products designed for chewing.]

Whilst that definition is not exhaustive, it gives a flavour of Parliament's intentions when the Act was drafted. From that Mr ("Loophole") Freeman deduces that the mischief which Parliament intended does not include urinating.

As the BBC article suggests, there is other legislation which may be appropriate, but that designed to prevent litter is not the one to choose. 

[THECORBYLOON]

I was surprised that what was meant by, "litter" was not in the original legislation.

[ToraToraTora]

I'd go with OG, it's litter if you can pick it up.

[highbury57]

I think at Earl's Court underground there's a sign saying There are no toilet facilities at this station. Underneath someone has written Wanna bet!

[gulliver1]

This man could have been Weeing in Boris's ditch though Naomi.

[Khandro]

I wonder why we are so squeamish about bodily functions ? In Merrie England, public toilets were just that -public. People sat side by side conversing and socially interacting.

 

The stoic Greek philosopher Diogenes went about naked, defecated in Public (& did other unmentionable things too!)

😮 

[bookbinder]

Urine is regarded as a good fertilizer.

https://www.popsci.com/environment/urine-fertilizer-agriculture/