In The Light Of This Desparation......

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/senegalese-families-mourning-deaths-of-hundreds-of-young-men-trying-to-reach-europe-13136128

Should Europe re invade the failed states of Africa and export the civilisation we once did? Clearly "independence" has been a disaster in most cases and their people are so desparate to get to European rule that they risk their lives daily. Discuss.

[davebro3]

Nah - leave it up to the Chinese...

[Old_Geezer]

No way to convince the tax paying public that losing their sons & daughters on such military escapades is worth supporting. To act there needs to be a convincing argument for benefit to back an action up, otherwise it falls st the first hurdle.

[douglas9401]

Build a wall, as someone once said.

[ichkeria]

Absolutely. Ideally let's do it in the style of King Leopold of Belgium. The Belgian Congo really benefitted from that.

Are you trolling again?

[ichkeria]

Starting a war to halt a flood of refugees is rather like setting fire to an oil refinery for fear it might explode.

They walk among us indeed 😆

[davebro3]

BTW - it's despEration oh wise one

[bednobs]

in all honesty there's not much point is discussing things with someone who thinks they are right all of the time, end of, no other opinions listened to full stop.

[ToraToraTora]

ich, ok so slightly off the wall but the point is that those countries have failed since independence. They once had infrstructure, education, law and order etc. now they have warring tribes or corrupt self serving despots. Ask the people of Senegal trying to sail 500 miles on a tea tray to escape it what they preferred. Once ruled by France they are trying to get to actual France.

[youngmafbog]

//Are you trolling again?//

It seems a perfectly reasnable question.

If they all want to come here then maybe we should go there, then there would be no reason to migrate.

I have often wondered what it would be like for all like minded people to congregate in one country.  Would it be successful, or boring or a total failure?

 

[ToraToraTora]

have a go bednobs, what is the answer to Africa's failed states? I'm looking at the source of the reason why the people are so desparate to get out.

[ToraToraTora]

I'm trying to provoke a discussion on this problem people, do try not to default to your usual position of having a go at me.

Ask the people of Zimbabwe if they'd like to turn the clock back to pre 1980. I think I know what they'd say.

[bednobs]

no thanks, as i say not much point.

 

[ToraToraTora]

09:28 you have no view on the subject? you only discuss if everyone has your view?

[ichkeria]

Suggesting invading countries to bring them to what we regard as our level of civilisation is not a sensible way to broach the problems in Africa that lead to migration.

I'm afraid I don't know enough about African history to pronounce on the extent to which they were somehow all damn savages until we arrived to teach them the error of their ways. Then we left and it all went back to how it was before,

I mean, Africa had its own empires in the last: certainly the Malian one - was that any better of worse than a western one?  It was famed for its enormous wealth, and for its learning: Emperor Mansa Musa was noted for bringing great architecture from the east, and a huge library the like of which had hardly been seen.

[youngmafbog]

// to bring them to what we regard as our level of civilisation //

But they seem to want to come here for it, so it seems it is what is wanted?

As for invading, no I wouldnt go that far but I suspect that is TTT trying to provoke discussion.  But before the 'whites' and the 'Asians' were run out of countries like Rhodesia and Uganda they ran well now they are not.  Itworked very well (although did need much amendment) in that generally the 'whites'  farmed and the Asians ran business.

 

[ToraToraTora]

ich: "Suggesting invading countries to bring them to what we regard as our level of civilisation is not a sensible way to broach the problems in Africa that lead to migration." - who suggested that? I asked the question: Should we repeat what worked in the past?

"I'm afraid I don't know enough about African history to pronounce on the extent to which they were somehow all damn savages until we arrived to teach them the error of their ways. Then we left and it all went back to how it was before," - it seems you do know a lot about African history, that is exactly what happened.

"I mean, Africa had its own empires in the last: certainly the Malian one - was that any better of worse than a western one?  It was famed for its enormous wealth, and for its learning: Emperor Mansa Musa was noted for bringing great architecture from the east, and a huge library the like of which had hardly been seen." - great but not common in African history

[sandyRoe]

Take up the White Man's burden— 

    Send forth the best ye breed— 

Go bind your sons to exile

  To serve your captives' need;

To wait in heavy harness

 On fluttered folk and wild—

Your new-caught sullen peoples,

  Half devil and half child. 

2

Take up the White Man's burden— 

    In patience to abide

To veil the threat of terror

    And check the show of

[ToraToraTora]

Bit early to be on the pop isn't it sandy?

[sandyRoe]

That's Kipling.  When he wasn't running his cake bakery he'd pen a verse or two.

[ToraToraTora]

Exceedingly good no doubt😁