Please, Please, Please Don't Vote For Them .Vote For Us Instead.

[gulliver1]

Grant Shapps, is Pleading with voters not to vote Labour and give them a super -majority. Which is seen as effectively conceding that the Tories have already lost the election in his eyes.You don't want a government with a super-Majority Says mr Shapps..Unless it's Conservative of course.

[bednobs]

doesnt everyone?

[Khandro]

//Shapps is saying "He (Starmer) will also give 16 year olds the vote.  Because he thinks they will vote Labour and keep them in power.//

He should be careful about doing that. The Germans just gave the 16 year olds the vote assuming they would vote for the left wing Parties, but in last week's EU elections they voted overwhelmingly for the AfD Right 😄

[Untitled]

Is khandro suddenly in favour of votes at 16? how convenient 🤣

[Khandro]

^^ as long as they vote sensibly as the young Germans did,

as did also the French young voters. - The bad loosers on the French Left blamed it all, not on politics, but on Le Penn's candidate being too handsome and all the young women love him.  

[naomi24]

I'm not in favour of it - whoever they vote for.

[sp1814]

The Conservatives have tried to massage the rights of voters with the introduciton of voter IDs. 

Young people’s travel passes have been deliberately excluded, while old people’s bus passes are just fine.

You can argue that they did this because older people lean towards the Tory party whilst younger people lean away (generally).

[sp1814]

Also last year, the Tories last month gave 2.2 million expats who have lived abroad for more than 15 years the right to vote:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/22/tories-hire-coordinator-to-get-expat-supporters-to-vote-in-general-election

If Labour are to be slammed for attempting to increaase representation amongst its key demographic - surely the Tories should be criticised too?

[10ClarionSt]

Rishi Soonaxed is definitely going to lose lots of votes from the military, serving and veterans. I was speaking to a retired army general last weekend and he said that lots of miliatry people are extremely annoyed with him for his D-Day bodyswerve and the National Service joke.  

[Khandro]

sp. Those, mostly retired, people have put more into the UK than many of the residents who were entitled to vote. Many (including me) still have interests and pay taxes in the UK. Why should they not have a vote in how it is governed ?

Change to franchise brings UK in line with other major democracies which allow lifelong voting rights

“Voting is a basic citizenship right regardless of where someone lives. This is a historic change to the UK franchise after years of campaigning by ourselves and others, particularly long-term campaigner Harry Shindler, who sadly died before he could use his hard-won vote,” 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/16/britons-living-abroad-regain-right-to-vote-in-uk-elections-as-15-year-rule-ends

[drmorgans]

I guess the main reason for excluding ex-pats is that they have no (or little) direct experience of how the country is being run. Listening to most Tory commentators it would appear that there's been the odd blip but generally they've done a decent job. As opposed to the reality, which is that the last 14 years have been shambolic.

 

[sp1814]

khandro

And the exclusion of young people's travel passes while old people’s bus passes?

 

[sp1814]

Khandro

 

Also - the right to vote should be be judged on a sliding scale. It's a binary measure. A 65 year old doesn't have any more rights to his or her democratic voice than an 18 year old.

Also, a 65 year old may have "put more into the UK than many of the residents who were entitled to vote" but it's also true that many woud've taken vastly more out (pension, tax allowances, health care, social care, eye tests, winter fuel allowances, free railcard and bus pass etc...

[Untitled]

the british emigrants sp1814 describes were granted voting rights because the government thought it likely they would vote tory. sp1814 is quite right.

[drmorgans]

 

Pensioners get free bus travel in England, but not rail, except where councils (such as those in London) fund it.

 

[newmodarmy]

//Also, a 65 year old may have "put more into the UK than many of the residents who were entitled to vote" but it's also true that many woud've taken vastly more out (pension, tax allowances, health care, social care, eye tests, winter fuel allowances, free railcard and bus pass etc...//

A tax allowance isn't "taking money out". Anyway that argument is flawed because someone who's 65 has paid taxes.NI and VAT and taken some out at times, but overall they've paid in more net than a 16/17 year old who's paid no tax or NI but has had (via mother) the benefit of child benefit, education, healthcare.

A logical extension of your point is that the entitlement to vote should be based on income tax paid minus benefits claimed, so the long term unemployed and disabled/ill health sufferers who tend to earn less, claim benefits and use more NHS shouldn't be allowed to vote?

[newmodarmy]

//the british emigrants sp1814 describes were granted voting rights because the government thought it likely they would vote tory. sp1814 is quite right//

Ah, so nothing to do with Schindler's efforts over 20 years.  Makes you wonder why Tories didn't do it in in 2010. And may explain why the Blair/Brown governments didn't agree to it.

Personally,  I can see arguments both ways on this.

[gulliver1]

drmorgans @ 17.35 Does it annoy you that I can help vote a party of my choice to Govern the Country that I no longer reside in. We expats need to keep the country in order in case we need to return..OK.

[davebro3]

//We expats need to keep the country in order in case we need to return..OK.//

Oh my gawd - call the men in white coats!

[Khandro]

sp: I know not of your circumstances, but I will hazard a bold statement and say that I have in my lifetime contributed more into the British economy than you have.

I may be wrong, but I feel comfortable with that assertion. 

[Untitled]

and so what if you have? does that make you more intelligent? more insightful? more compassionate? better informed? 

no. it means you have money and nothing else.