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Trouble In Paradise.....?
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TBF I agree with Sir Beer, we should not be encouraging more saucepans. The 2 child cap is fine.
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Hymie is delibreately missing the point. I don't understand why anybody would think it is acceptable for people to be rewarded by the taxpayer for choosing to have more than two kids. Put it another way, if somebody with two kids decided to have a third and went to their boss and asked for more money because of their lifestyle choice, I would imagine the vast...
07:38 Wed 24th Jul 2024
if you don't want pur workforce to be bolstered by immigration davebro then the answer is to encourage people to have children and to fund high value degrees... all of that means raising taxes a bit.
and yes newmodarmy that will require waiting 20 years or so to reap the benefits... this is called long term thinking and it is something UK politicians do not do
“at present immigration helps to alleviate the problem by importing labour for social care and health and by increasing the workforce.”
The UK does not need to import labour. There are more than 10 million people of working age not working. Many of them have a reason to be in that position but many of them have not. They’ve simply decided that work is not for them.
The population of the UK has increased by 17 million (over a third) since 1950. More recently it has been even more alarming. In the last ten years (to 2023) the population has grown by over four million (almost 6.5%). That’s a million increase every 30 months. The overwhelming majority of these increases have been driven by immigration. It is simply unsustainable to support such population growth at these levels.
The problem of an “ageing population” that you mention cannot be solved by simply growing the overall population. The reason for that is quite simple: unbelievable as it may seem, the people contributing to that growth eventually age themselves. Since there are ever growing numbers of them, the problems they present will become ever greater.
"if you seriously want to cut immigration like e.g. farage does then you need to do something about the birth rate because leaving it to "market forces" will result in a stagnant and impoverished country"
Countries do not become "impoverished" if they don't have a continually increasing population.It is utter lunacy for a country of this size with its current resources to run a strategy aimed at solving a population problem by adding ever greater numbers to the population (however that increase is driven). It requires a stable population of people who will contribute to its services and its economy. That means next to zero net migration and two children per couple (or per woman, if you like).It also means ditching the idea that 50% of young people should attend further education. Thirteen years (5 to 18) should be more than sufficient to educate most young people to a level where they can usefully contribute to the society in which they live.
No more than 10% of jobs in the UK actually require a degree level education. It Is not necessary to hold a degree to be able to do a job caring for older people. Young people should be encouraged to enter that profession at age 16 when they can undergo training and be proficient within a couple of years.
A radical re-think of his country’s economic model is necessary to devise one which does not depend on ever increasing numbers of people being required. I’m not sure that this or any other government is capable of seeing that through because it will mean making some difficult decisions. After all, what 18 year old is going to get out of bed in the morning to help some old people wash and dress when they can enrol on a useless “degree course” for three years, or simply fester at home watching Youtube videos and eating Hobnobs?
“…enough to pay for the scrapping of the two child benefit cap more than 12 times over.”
Leaving aside the fact that that sum has already been spent and is no longer available, it wouldn’t pay for it twelve times over. It would pay for it for twelve years (probably less as the Child Benefit amount is increased in line with inflation). What happens when that £37bn runs out?
It's worth clarifying that the 2 child benefit cap doesn't mean you only get child benefit for the first 2 children. If you have 10 children you still get 10 lots of child benefit (1@£26.50 and 9@ £16.95). It's Universal Credit and child tax credits that are payable for only the first two children per family.
Some of those arguing against the cap use two arguments- the need to reduce poverty and the need to encourage more children now in order to give a bigger workforce in 18 years time to support the increasing older population. But to me there's a contradiction- if the cap is leading to poverty for families with 3 or more children, how can it also be deterring people from having that third (and fourth.... ) child.
And I agree with Newjudge that it's a nonsense to encourage immigration and larger families brought up in a family on benefits- thus putting pressure on schools, hospitals, social services etc- as a way of supporting the increasing population!
Using immigration to avoid having to get the unemployed natives working, is a short term sticking plaster symptom relief, and a medium & long term trap.
Immigrants age, their arrival increases the population, and next thing you know you are trying to convince everyone that, that means you need even bigger numbers of new immigrants to fix things again. Surely everyone can see that, that way lies insanity.
All that is needed is for those of working age to do their bit and create sufficient wealth duch that the nation's bills are covered. What's not required is deliberately donning the blinkers and making the issue worse for future generations.
digressing somewhat:
I have a nephew who did a "pretty useless" degree (Media Studies) and has struggled to find secure employment since leaving college. Now in his mid-twenties he is priced out of starter jobs by younger applicants who can be paid less under the minimum wage rules.
He has recently started a course to qualify him as a teacher BUT what will he teach? - presumably Media Studies, which will produce more school/college leaverss in the same situation as himself!
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