I'd Forgotten How Nasty The Lefties Are.....

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1937363/chancellor-rachel-reeves-pensioners-winter-fuel

We can afford to give £11.6bn to foriegners for "climate change" yet 10million pensioners must freeze. Nice one Robber Reeves! They always used to say the Tories were the nasty party!

[ToraToraTora]

auntypoll: "TTT so you agree all pensioners regardless of their income should get a tax funded benefit for winter fuel? Even mick jagger lord sugar and those pensioners living the high life in Spain?. Nothing will change for those pensioners on pension credit . Your post is worthy of the sivvle-eye looney brigade. " - ahh the "so" rule, Andy would be proud! No of course I don't but the means tested limit should be higher. I actually do think it's correct that it should be means tested but it's unfair on those near the threshold. So for this payment I suggest a limit of £25k income. Currently if they had the temerity to provide even a small amount for their own pension they get clobbered and are often worse off that those that live entirely on the state, that cannot be right.

[DDIL]

I know of an old person who has £300,000 plus in the bank, gets full AA, pension and private pension plus income from investments.

They are currently doing complete flip because they will die of the cold because they will no longer get the heating allowance.

I am afraid that I am in agreement of it being means tested.

[DDIL]

I agree with ToraToraTora that the means testing should be set at a higher level.

[youngmafbog]

Many, like a very close relative used to donate it to (in this case an Age) charity so helping those less fortunate.  Guess thats the end of that.

It was never worth stopping for the really rich as it would have cost more to administer than it would save.

As for the arguments that the new arrangements are fair, dont mak me laugh.  Penalise people for having saved (in many cases) a small amount, thats real incentive to save for the young isnt it.

As suggested abouve the only fair way is to have a slightly higher amount, I would those getting above the equivalent of the National wage.

[youngmafbog]

Well yes, but if you are not on the poverty line you dont really have much to moan about.

As it is someone can have a couple of quid from a small private pension that puts them just over the limit for credits (Which isnt a large amoubt) so they get nowt.  Thus unless you have big bucks to put away it is better not to bother to save, spend the lot and let the Government pcik up the tab seems to be the message.

Robber Reeves has got this one wrong big time.

[youngmafbog]

Are you deliberat;ly missing the point?

No one is talking about people with a large or indeed any legacy to leave.

There are many not on credits, in rented, and just making ends meet.  How difficult is that to understand?

[ToraToraTora]

auntypoll: "People do not have a right to have £1000's in the bank and get a handout off the government." - err yes they do, rightly or wrongly, wrongly in my opinion, it's possible to claim benefits if you have less than £16000 savings.

https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/benefits/problems-with-benefits/how-do-savings-and-lump-sum-pay-outs-affect-benefits

 

[ToraToraTora]

auntypoll: "I'm aiming this as those complaining they have a small private pension as well as the state one.and own their own home. They should not be getting winter heat benefits." - but it's ok for those that have been a parasite their entire lives and never contributed everything and they get given everything.

[rowanwitch]

I have made this point before but it sits nicely here...

Many of those with modest private pensions are retired public service workers, health, emergency services, transport, teaching local government etc.  Mostly  reasonable jobs but nothing major pay wise.    They form a big chunk of the group that will be affected.    It seems somehow that it is ok  to take money from ex public service workers to offset the cost of paying inflation busting rises to current public service workers.  

This group are also almost certainly paying tax on their combined  pensions, will be above the threshold for any means tested benefits  but in real terms may have friends on full benefits who seem relatively better off in terms of residual income after the bills are paid. 

[gramps85]

Auntypoll. So you agree with me that members of the cabinet, who are on a good salary, and probably have a few bob stashed away from the handouts they receive from the unions, should not be getting an allowance to heat their second homes.

[youngmafbog]

//I guess many older people live in the large family home they've had for years that is expensive to heat with high council tax. //

Are you just trying to be a contairian or do you lack something upstairs?

 

[New Judge]

“I can't think of a new Govenment ever being as incompetent as these clowns in their first 6 weeks.”

They are not incompetent, dd. They know exactly what they are doing. It’s just that what they’re doing does not quite concur with what they said they would (or would not) do if elected. 

“KHANDRO, who has paid what in expectation of receiving the Winter Fuel Payment?”

There is  clear link between the WFA and the State Pension, Corby. It is only payable to those of State Pension age and (prior to this latest change) was only payable to those who have claimed a State Pension.

The State pension is inextricably linked to National Insurance contributions. The amount of NI contributions a person has made determines whether they receive a State Pension at all, and if they do, how much they will get. Whilst the amount paid in NI is not a proper relationship to the pension benefits received (as it would be in a “proper” pension scheme) that argument need not trouble us here. 

The WFA was introduced over a quarter of a century ago. So all of that time, those seeing their NI deductions each month could reasonably expect to receive all of their State Pension and the other benefits that come with that package. 

“Even mick jagger lord sugar ...?”

It’s unlikely that either of those two have claimed a State Pension and so would not have been eligible for WFA. But if they had, the argument that they “don’t need it” is specious. It was introduced “to help older people pay to heat their homes”. There was no requirement to be “poor”. Mick Jagger is an older person and if he is in the UK during the winter he will need to heat his home.

It has taken just over a month for people to realise that they are now living under a proper Labour government. Anybody who is or was earning a decent living for themselves is seen as fair game. The funds saved by shafting them will be donated to Labour’s pet causes. The first recipients of this largesse will be well paid public sector workers (ironically many of them with gold-plated pensions). The government has agreed a 22% increase for junior doctors, 15% to train drivers (some of whom have announced they will be striking at weekends for ten weeks starting a the end of this month) and more than 5% for other public sector workers. The cost of these three schemes alone is getting on for ten times the amount the WFA changes will save. Following up closely will be the despots running third world cesspits, who will swiftly trouser the £11bn to be handed to them to tackle climate change. Bringing up the rear (for the moment) will be a new industry funded with another £8bn, which aims to cover much of the country with solar farms and wind turbines which will never, ever, provide much more than a fracion of the country's energy needs.

So be prepared for a lot more of the same. By the end of his Parliament do not be surprised if the State Pension itself comes under threat of removal from those “who don’t need it”.

[fripfrip]

If you have paid into the system all your life and are a pensioner

you should get the winter fuel allowance,mick jagger and lord sugar included, they have paid  their dues, it's dole scum who have never worked or paid into the system that you should be condemning,or are you saying rich people who have paid high taxes all their life should not be able to use the nhs as well.

[Deskdiary]

Hear hear fripfrip.

 

My MIL will be going into a care home shortly and it's going to cost £6k a month, because her and her (now dead) husband were stupid enough to Look after themselves. She's far from rich and the likelihood is (given she is physically ok but is ridden with dementia) that it will wipe out her savings. But she could be sitting next to Doris who has paid the square root of F All into the system but will get the same care.

 

That is not right.

 

I'm not suggesting Doris shouldn't get the care, I'm saying why should my MIL have to pay for it when those that haven't contributed a bean don't have to.

[ToraToraTora]

21:33 bang on that infuriates me too. Put nothing in, get everything free. If we all did that we'd still be in caves.