The Writing's On The Wall

[Khandro]

'Mass migration brought the German government to its knees – the rest of Europe will follow

Leaving the ECHR is the only option for countries who wish to regain sovereignty over their borders'

Telegraph headline.

I agree - do you ?

[New Judge]

"Leaving the ECHR is the only option for countries who wish to regain sovereignty over their borders' "

EU countries do not have sovereignty over their borders and that's their fault for (a) belonging to the EU and (b) signing the ridiculous Schengen Agreement. 

The UK does has sovereignty over its borders. It can (and does) determine who is allowed to land here and who isn't. The problem is it does not enforce that sovereignty.

The ECHR will only protect those who have been permited to land here from deporatation. It will do nothing for those not here.  So the best (and I would say the only) way to ensure that its borders are secure and its sovereignty remains intact is to prevent them landing in the first place.

Even if the UK left the ECHR there is not a cat in hell's chance of many, if any illegal migrants being removed. Most of them have destroyed their papers and the authoritties here would have no idea where to remove them to. The notion that they can simply be returned to France is risible. France will not hear of it; UK vessels are not permitted to land without permission and that would not be granted; ferry companies will not accept them as passengers because they have to ensure that they have permission to land and that  will not be forthcoming.

I don't know how long it will take for the penny to drop, but until it does, this will simply go on and on. 

[Atheist]

I thought that  letting muslim immigrants into the country was considered by some ABers to be a retrograde step, because their religion is backward and aggressive, just like the old days. UK Christianity, for all its weaknesses, has moved well away from the dominant role it has had in the past and is at least not seriously in charge of our political system. It seems to me that, as time goes by and religion stops being bossy and dominant, sticking its nose into politics and interfering with the natural decency present in a majority of people, our world becomes a better place. London today, for example, is nowhere near as violent as it was in the past, when most men wore a sword, when criminals were publicly executed (even for relatively minor crimes or for their religious beliefs). Without the prop and support of organised religions the powerful have to give up their claims to heavenly inspiration to justify their carrying out of wars, massacres, and general disgusting behaviours which are all aimed ultimately at increasing their own physical wellbeing.  

[Atheist]

BTW the above rant was in response to Khandro at 13:51.

 

[Old_Geezer]

Not that difficult to commandeer any ferry that refused to help out, take the illegals across the Channel, then dump them into inflatables that will allow them to get to the French shore.  They are French migrants because they crossed from France. They can welcome them back.

[Khandro]

Atheist // Without the prop and support of organised religions the powerful have to give up their claims to heavenly inspiration to justify their carrying out of wars,..   //

Which Christian wars are you thinking of ? I think you may have to go back to the 13th century crusades for that.

[New Judge]

"Not that difficult to commandeer any ferry that refused to help out, take the illegals across the Channel, then dump them into inflatables that will allow them to get to the French shore." 

No need to commandeer a ferry, OG. They can simply be towed back to French waters as soon as they enter the areas controlled by the UK. The trouble is there is no government with the bottle to do so. 

They seem to bask in the strange notion that people who deliberately imperil themselves by putting to sea in overcrowded, unsuitable craft must somehow be "rescued" under the "rules of the sea." 

It is long since time that the very idea that this country must put up with this influx because we are bound by those rules was put to bed. A simple announcement that the UK will no longer be liable for the safety of such people and that they will be returned to French waters (and make sure they are) would put an alomst immediate stop to it.

No country should put up with thousands of people arriving without leave to do so. France does so because it has abandoned its borders. The UK hasn't and so should not.

[Atheist]

Khandro; Of course I am going back centuries; I'm not comparing early 20C with early 21C. And there have been wars waged which use religion to whip up team spirit and righteous justification. Religion can also include such ideoloogies as communism; as long as there is some gang to join people will join, and feel justified because the gang tells you to join.