UK Prison System

[Supernick]

Seeing a report on the ITV lunchtime news about the prison system in the Philippines, has sparked a fevered office debate about the UK prison system. The predictable view has arisen that prisons are easy and everyone who is incarcerated gets Playstations, gourmet food, state of the art gyms and a degree as their punishment/rehabilitation. I'm sure that this is probably not true, and prison is considerably harder than that, but does anyone have any experience or knowledge of it? What kind of routine and comforts does a prisoner have if they have been convicted of a serious crime? What kind of life can they expect to lead?

[january_bug]

At risk of sounding totally trite - probably the exact opposite of what was reported on the ITV news, which, in my opinion, becomes more and more the TV version of the Mail (or the Mirror when that suits) every single day!

To help you with a serious answer, you may care to look at

http://www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/

or

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/

First of all, you will need to define for oyurself "serious crime", deciding which category of prisoner you are enquiring about.

Reports tend to focus on people in open prisons, towards the end of sentences of non-violent offences such as failure to pay tax, or corporate crime. It is often then implied that murderers, rapists, drug dealers and paedolphiles enjoy similar conditions, when, I feel, you are right to assume (as you did in your question) that this is not the case!

I hope that the links are of some use and/or interest to you!

[noxlumos]

There was a huge debate on this very subject here just a very short while ago.

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question188950.html

That should pretty much answer your question, from most people's perspectives!

[laurence2]

Its called pampered uk system, Apart from their creature comforts, its looking at four walls 24/7 most of the time. it seems the more serious the crime the better the conditions { no i have,nt been in prison}, You still keep your rights !!. and as you point out part of the prison sentence is rehabilitation, ie workshops, studying etc, to give them a chance to lead a life away from crime when they are let back into society, mind you what percentage follow this trail is open to question

[january_bug]

But surely better to try to turn out literate, drug and alcohol free ex-prisoners who have a chance of holding down a job and leading a life free of crime, than to pay to hole them up for 5 years and then let them out to commit crime/end up on benefits again, Laurence2? Or do you feel that we should not encourage peopel to make a useful contribution to society and instead allow them to sponge/commit crime, alternating their time between this path and prison, until they die? Or should we be done with it and shoot them.

You may not have been to prison, but have you worked in a prison, studied prisons, or done ANY research at all? TV and tabloids don't count by the way! :-)

[laurence2]

January? The impression thats coming across from your post is that you no what your talking about and i don,t, What part of my post is disturbing you, is it what percentage follow this trail is open to question,as i would love to know what your answer is to this, My brother has been in and out of the prison system for the last 27 years, so you get to no the system itself via visits,probation, & rehabilitation etc, so your first post, quote probably the exact opposite is in my view wrong,

Quite rightly as you quoted we need to define which is crime thats deserve,s a prison sentence, as their is a large percentage in my view that should,nt be in their. No doubt someone will quote a criminal is a criminal, But the point i was just trying to make are the serial offenders/its all i know in life brigade, apologies if i,ve offended anyone

[january_bug]

Laurence - we're evidently just going to p*ss each other off, so I'm just going to keep out of it. I left this site for a long time and I don't want to get back into previous experiences.

You didn't even imply before that you had had any experience of the system, however indirectly - you left me to come to that conclusion. Actually though, if you look, I was asking you a question. The answer clearly is that you DO have experience.

Do you feel that your brother should not have received help in prison? Would you not that he was cared for and helped to find a life free of crime?

I fail to see what you want/have wanted for your brother and others in a similar situation (though of course the case of each prisoner is unique, that I understand quite clearly).

I can see that I have upset you and so, as I said before, with apologies, I bow out.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

Why you two above are commenting on something you know very little about is beyond me,just because you have,visited,watched porridge or simelar on tv,does not give you any insight into prison life at all.I spent 18 mths in prison,for a crime which in the end i managed to prove i was innocent of. I NOT ONLY LOST MY FREEDOM,I LOST MY WIFE,MY COMPANY,MY DIGNITY.Being in there with some real crooks is a very nasty feeling sometimes,routine is there every day,meals same time,excersize is walking round a yard for 45 mins a day,yes many people in there re offend,but some dont,but prison is not a deterrant,as the majority end up back inside again.Of course if you doing a long sentence you do get certain extras,you can watch tv,go to the gym,but its not a holmes pl gym.All in all its not a nice place and thank god i dident have to spend another minute more then i did.

[january_bug]

Normanthedog - I am sorry ot hear of the misscarriage of justice that you experienced, I am sure it was very traumatic for you and your family. However, do not for ONE minute make assumptions about me. You know nothing about me. And it does not take going to prison to know about prisons. I hope that's clear to you now.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

In that case DONT comment on things you know nothing about.

[january_bug]

How the HECK to YOU know what I know about!?

I have NOT indicated my knowledge or education background or life experiences.

On what EVIDENCE can you prove that I know nothing about prisons!?!

Good luck answering that!

[january_bug]

PS - I do understand that you are bitter about your experiences, but I was neither the judge nor jury at your trial, so don't for god's sake try to take it out on me. That would be pathetic.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

The evidence of all the CRAP that comes out of your MOUTH,FOR GODS SAKE GET A LIFE.

[january_bug]

Learn how to express yourself a little more intelligently, and then come back to the debate with something that actually answers the question. I'm sure supernick really appreciates your contribution to his thread.

I suggest you concentrate on getting your own life in order before making assumptions about other.

Oh, and for the record during my LLB (that's a law degree by the way) I carried out a detailed study of prisons, forming an objective view based on newspaper reports, government reports, Prison Reform Trust Reports and documentaries interviewing prisoners past and present.

That doesn't make my opinions any more valid than yours, but it does entitle me to an opinion.

Actually, being a human being entitles me to an opinion and I am NOT weak-willed enough kowtow to your superior attitude and mistakenly come to the conclusion that, just because I am in the presence of an ex-con I am not allowed a view on prisons.

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

A law degree,yeah right.and iv got a ferrari.

[noxlumos]

I was sentenced to seven years and although I'm sure you did a huge amount of research, it's really not the same thing as first hand experience, I think maybe that's what Norman was trying to say. You are naturally entitled to your opinion on what you know of prisons however, and I for one would welcome more people who had never been to prison learning of conditions there because it's really not a holiday camp.

[january_bug]

noxlumos - Thank you for acknowledging that I have a right to an opinion. I was TRYING to say that I agree that it's really tough in prison, from the evidence I saw. I see that you think that my opinion is worth less than yours as I haven't been to prison. Do you really think that objective opinion has no value?

At no point have I tried to claim to know precisely what it's like in prison. And even if I did, may I point out that I would be honest enough to admit that I only know what it was like during the prisons I was in during the times I was in there. This would not make me an authority on the UK prison system, but it would allow me to offer one viewpoint to a debate. After all, one of us may have had positive experiences and feel that the NHS is a success, the other may have been treated badly and feel it's a disgrace, and someone else may have done some objective research.... we'd all surely be entitled to those thoughts... equally.

Dog - I pity you. That you can't even recognise the truth when you see it. Actually, if you really must know, I have an LLB and an LLM. If you have a ferrari, I hope you enjoy driving it. I'd have picked an Aston Martin myself, but, as you may or may not be aware, we all entitled on our opinions and choices, be it on cars, or on prisons.

[ludwig]

jb, you could start an argument in an empty room.

[noxlumos]

January, All I was trying to say to you is that I thought perhaps that Norman, whose understandably emotive on this subject, was trying to say that he felt you were unaware of the true state of prisons because you had never been an inmate.

I do not value your opinion above mine, or mine above yours, I merely acknowledge that they are very different perceptions due to the conditions that the experience of prison were obtained under.

I don't care if you've got fifty degrees, ( I have two myself, niether gained via prison education either by the way).Having a law degree frankly doesn't make you any more knowledgable necessarily than any man in the street on the subject of prisons.

I acknowledged your opinion, politely I thought, and at no point attempted to imply that your opinion was worth less than mine, merely pointed out the difference.

[laurence2]

My my, This debate has moved on, It is very obvious that some of us feel.

1, More knowledgeable than others, [degrees etc}

2, More experienced than others {doing bird}.

What is clearly without doubt tho is the immaturity being shown, As pointed out by all we are all entitled to our views, January- my brother has had all the help & support given to him from inside & outside the prison, My family have been especially supportive with him over the years.

i,ve been trying to rack my brains as to why he turned to a life of crime, I,ve 5 brothers & 1 sister all of which lead for other words normal life etc.

Norman- Without getting into a slagging match with you, I,m also sorry to hear about your misscarriage of justice, and haven,t a clue as to what you have been personally going through, I may not of been inside physically, but mentally i feel like i,ve done 27 years and have lost a brother, so my feelings are somewhat different to yours.

Finally on a personal note its nice to share other people,s knowledge,experience & problems etc, and look forward to further debates

thankyou

[january_bug]

Noxlumos - I wasn't suggesting that a law degree gives me superior knowledge - I know nothing of family law or IP law for example. I was merely trying to say that I had actually studied the prison system and the daily lives of prisoners. THat obviously counts for jack **** with you people and that's that.

I do NOT claim to be superior, but I do NOT appreciate being told that I am not entitled to an opinion until I have been to prison. Moreover, I have not tried to take out on people here things that have gone wrong in my life, and I don't see why I should be the punchbag for others who haven't sought counselling etc on the terrible things that have happened to them.

I probably could argue with an empty room, but I suspect it would come up with a more interesting and less personal repsonse than many users of this site. What a pity that they overshadow the many interesing and intelligent people who also try to post.

Ed will ban me soon, so I have no fear in saying - **** *** lot!