smoking ban

[micko1962]

does anyone know how many pubs were forced to shut in Republic of Ireland after the brought in a smoking ban ?? i believe it ran into hundreds !! and at what cost to the government in lost taxes ?? does this outweigh the so called gains in savings to the NHS ????

[micko1962]

Smudge, just seen your last reply, i dont think you can compare a no smoking policy at work to one in a pub/club !!!!!

You dont have the same choice about work, you cant exactly woalk form job to job these days as you can pubs. Plus drinking and smoking are a social thing, unlike the work which is a necessity of life !!!!!

[micko1962]

Whickerman, im not implying that at all. what i said was those that want to smoke are now going to be doing more often at home than before........LOGIC !!!

[laurence2]

Micko, I feel sorry for the kids who's parents are so selfish not to smoke outside the house period.

For to long non-smokers have had no rights, workplaces, restraurants, betting shops, pubs etc, its obviously touched a raw nerve with you, even tho you say your a non-smoker.

You say if you don't like it either go somewhere else or have to seperate areas, What choice then do children have living with their parents

[micko1962]

I agree Lawrence, i feel sorry for the kids as well. I have never smoked (my kids now do) but i just cant see how its fair to stop them going in for a drink and a smoke with their mates !!!

OK i may be wrong but in the day and age where human rights are running crazy....................where will this end ????

Having outdoor shelters is not the answer, surely that is nothing short of discrimination !!

[Whickerman]

Micko, this is off the point and will probably be taken off, but the price increases were well under way before the ban ever came in. the pubs are full at weekends, but people drink less. That's why takings are down. If people weren't coming to the pub because of the smoke ban, they wouldn't actually be in the pub, would they? If the prices were lower, people would buy more - that's the logical bit.

The tourist board here have down major studies, and the number 1 reason that tourists are hesitant to come back is the high prices. But because it suits them to state otherwise, the Vintners have disregarded this.

Still have no eveidence that pubs have closed because of the ban...

[micko1962]

Whickerman, as i say i know many people in Bray, and Kerry for that matter, all of which i see or speak to often, now all these are telling me the same thing, that the "Local pubs are being forced out of business due to no customers" i do not believe for one second that has nothing to do with the smoking ban !!!!

I also listen to REd FM a Cork radio station on the internet, they also claimed that "in the first year of the ban some 25 poubs had shut as a result of falling customers" can also have nothing to do with a smoking ban........i dont think so, 1 or 2 pubs yes not 25 !!!.

Can i ask where in Ireland your from ?

[laurence2]

I understand where your coming from, My dads smoked all his life, i,ve 4 brothers, 1 sister, and when we were kids he said their was three things he did,nt want us to do when we grow up.

1, No smoking

2, No motorbikes { his reason their death traps}

3, No swearing { in front of my mum}

Well 2 out of 3 ain't bad { i swear but not proud of it}, all my family including my mum have to this day never smoked, i'm 44 by the way.

The point i'm trying to make is parents can lead by example { i no my dad never} but we respected his wishes and i,ve passed on his 2 out the three wishes to my two boys, 9 & 12, and with this ban coming in next year I hope my two will read, digest & understand now the dangers of cig/passive smoking

[micko1962]

Lawrence2, thats a fair comment, like yourself im 44 with 3 kids , 21-18 and 6 (small gap - 2nd wife) + 1 stepdaughter who does not smoke. My parents both smoked and to honest instilled the same rules as your dad done. My 2 sisters and me have never smoked (did at school cos you had to), unfortunately my sons do, hoped they wouldnt. i tried to do the same as my dad, but failed miserably. My daughter is still to young to really understand anyway.

its been an interesting debate i started, but never really got an answer !!

Still life goes on.

[Whickerman]

Micko -I'm from the south-east of the country, co.wexford.

The figures are there for all to read, that all of these pubs have shut down because of the ban. But the thing is, the only source is the vintners organisation, and they're hardly unbiased.

What you need to remember is that there is a very limited number of pub licences here - it's strictly controlled. And the main reason a pub closes here now is to sell the licence to someone else. There's huge money to be gotten for a licence - hundreds of thousands. And most licences are now bought by supermarkets expanding into offlicence sales, or big businesses buying licences to set up so-called 'superpubs' in other towns. The fact is, the number of pubs was declining long before the ban came in. That trend didn't change, just the spin given to it by the vintners fed.

I'll give you a for instance. A large pub in wexford sold its licence to a new supermarket. The owners converted the pub premises into a restauraunt, and are coining it in. There's no loser, but there's one less pub, simply becaus there's more money in other business, due to high prices, and high taxation in pubs.

[micko1962]

Whickerman, i have clearly started a debate here that no one can win, as neither can give evidence either way.

I find hard to believe that the Vintners organisation would continue to shut pubs down and turn them into restaurants, as this would make a lot less money for them, i agree there is money in food but any honest publican (and i know many) would tell you the food is there to get the public through the door, they make the money on booze !!!!!

Many restaurants here in England have a seperate bar as well, where the money is made.

I myself have run many a bar in my time so i know the benifits of having food available for the punter, without it many of them pubs would go broke. People are happy to have a meal without a smoke (good manners) but a pub is not a restaurant, so would not be the same. Pub food is deliberately a lot cheaper to entice people in, this wont happen with smokers being kicked out !!

[sandbach99]

Micko. Look round England lots of pubs are boarded up . Irelands Office of Tobaco Control states, No adverse economic effect, bar retail sales increased in the first 3 months of the ban following a 4 year decline and number of people employed in the hospitality trade rose by 6%.

Surveys in New York show an 11% reduction in smokers, and sales tax in entertainment and retail business rose by �8million as customers packed cleaner premises.

Last rear I went to Ireland and is was brilliant to be able to go to the pubs, When I have gone to a pub for a birthday celebration etc I have found smokers smoking in the no smoking areas and even when landlords ask people not to smoke in no smoking areas they are met with abuse.

I wish the pub chains would all introduce the ban now and not wait till next year, experience seems to indicate they would see an increase in trade.
As for this 'parents will smoke more in front of their children' presumably these same parents smoke in front of their children at breakfast so they are already giving their children illnesses, but maybe the smoking ban will give them the reason to stop smoking and as in New York become part of the 11% who stop smoking

[micko1962]

Typical response from a non-smoker !!!!!!!!!

[Whickerman]

Micko - would you like a paddle to stir it, or is that wooden spoon enough? ;-)

[smudge]

Micko - only just read your post to me. I wasn't for one moment comparing a no-smoking policy at work to a ban in public places/clubs.

I only added that because staff at work were up in arms at first, but ended up 'thanking me' for doing so.

You never know - maybe, just maybe, people who do smoke & who are banished to outside pubs/clubs for a fag, might think the same one day! I somehow doubt it though!

[sandbach99]

Micko If that 'typical of a non-smoker' was directed at me, yes you are right I am a non-smoker not from choice but through illness. I developed my chest illness at 18 months old as a result of measles.

So to keep reasonably well I have avoided pubs and smoky atmospheres this has meant a reduced social life. I have to refuse nights out at the pub with friends a no smoking ban will not make smokers refuse a night out, inconvienience them, but not stop them. So why can't I and others like me have a social life?

[smudge]

Sandbach, sorry to hear of your illness.

We used to love going to quiz nights at our local, but the smoke played havoc with my sinuses & I stopped going purely for that reason. Mind you our clothes & hair used to reek too, which also put us off!

[gavinbecky]

I'm a former smoker of 40 a day.

No to smoking where food is served sure. Even in areas of a pub...but a complete ban will just criminilize people. ID cards, fox hunting bans, smoking bans.

The one thing people have failed to mention are the increases in taxes. 700k people may stop smoking, but those same people winging before the ban will then be winging about increased taxes because less people are smoking. How else do you suppose the government will recoup the lost revenue?. They certainly cant do without it now.

I read a while back how much taxes would have to go up if smoking were completely outlawed and alcohol too. Very frightening...

Ultimately people will continue to smoke, hunt foxes and drink till they fall over. It's called freedom. Something that many died for in two world wars..

[micko1962]

SANDBACH, sorry to hear about that.

WHICKERMAN, i really am not trying to stir anything hear, just starting a genuine debate, that seems to be going nowhere.

Thanks to all who have answered.

BUT I'M RIGHT............maybe !!!!!

[pudsey]

Does anybody know if the smoking ban applies to the house of commons and/or the house of lords bars? Someone told me in the pub that it did not apply!!

Thanks,

Pudsey

[micko1962]

I am told that as a "ROYAL PALACE" the house of lords should be exempt from the ban, but the MP's have agreed that they should have to abide by the same rules as everyone else.

But somehow i doubt they will !!!!!!!!