For Hal and co, well here's your example....

[Loosehead]

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question207589.html

[undercovers]

whats this an example of? other than a waste of time reading and responding to ... oops

[Loosehead]

Well there was a Q about this sort of thing the other day and I and others where challenged to find a real example. I couldn't be bothered to find one so I just thought I'd wait until a real one came along, I knew it would be long. Interestingly there's actually 2 here so even better. I presume Hal is busy researching.

[hal]

Well gee loosehead, thanks for this. But its not evidence of an authority banning something (which is what I asked for). What it is is misguided individuals taking action because they don't fully understand policies or individuals over-reacting. There will always be this kind of thing. What it ain't is an Authority banning the word 'black'!

[Loosehead]

Well the Guy was the centre manager and the Golly incident was a police officer.

So are you only talking about elected officialdom when you say "an authority"? What about the hundreds of thousands of public sector employees working for "authority"? I take the point that some have made that there are little plonkers in offices all around the country trying to think of things that they think some group or other would or should be offended by, I just wonder if the hysteria it wips up should not be taken by them as an example of the effects their plonkery can have.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Perhaps if there weren't idiots who go around telling racist jokes, slapping women on the bum and calling things they don't like 'gay' and then saying 'it's just a bit of fun, don't get offended', the universe wouldn't see fit to create equal and opposite idiots to come up with stupid ideas like these to entertain the readers of the Daily Kneejerk...

It's yin and yang, man...

[Loosehead]

So if I read your analogy right then waldo, It's all Bernard Manning's fault!

[ludwig]

Loosehead - strange but true, yes it is basically Bernard Manning's fault. If there was no-one like him around there'd be no need for political correctness.

[kick3m0n]

not sure about that. After all, Manning, Davidson and their ilk are dinosaurs now. The new brand of comedians could not be less like them, yet the PC brigade moves on at an ever more scary pace. We were never less politically correct than in the 70s, yet the PC lunacy we're living in now has really only got going in the last 5 - 10 years. Bit of a delayed reaction, surely, if your explanation is correct.

[stoo_pid]

The suggested change has nothing to do with race or use of the colour black being offensive to black people. In fact they still sing Baa Baa Black Sheep.

The Sure Start centres in Ofxord & Abingdon are run by the charity PACT (Parents and Children Together). The idea is to turn the song into an action rhyme. In addition to "Black" sheep they also sing "Happy", "Sad", Bouncing", "Hopping", "Pink", "Blue", "White", etc.

An insider at the Daily Express was quoted as saying "our readers have a right to know what the ever-elusive PC Brigade are up to and we'll be damned if we're going to let facts get in the way of a good front-page headline"

Read the truth

[hal]

Loosehead - proves my point I think. Most of these stories are either made up or hugely exaggerated. I am grateful for you for providing this evidence!

[hal]

Its gone strangely quiet!

[Loosehead]

No reason hal we can argue all day, I mean what are you looking for? Oh yeah a act of parliament banning the word black. The examples have been given they are in the media daily, hysterical, sometimes but they do not detract from the fact that some officials, plonker s perhaps, keep comming up with silly decrees. Like in the mirror today a boozer has banned an 80 year old woman for not taking off her hat (I don't read it, a colleague was going on about it, ok). Now I know it wasn't a council decree but the point is there are people in positions of power with no common and they are having a disproportionate effect.

[Fat Boy]

But loosehead, all the so-called examples we've been presented with so far aren't actually TRUE. Pretty fundamental to anyone's argument I would have thought.

The discussion we've been having is whether there has been any decision made by any authority to stop other people using certain words of colour in case of causing any offence to anyone. Well, quite simply, there hasn't. What there have been are media reports ranging from distorted facts to outright lies & people sprouting tired old cant-think-for-themselves-and-really-believe-this-sh!t urban myths.

[hal]

Exactly

loosehead let me remind you that you offered this as an example. Its not true, so its not an example. The hat incident related to a pub with a hoodie ban. A daft barmaid told an 82 year old to take her hat of. She needs to be properly trained and the pub needs to apologise. Thats it. Its nothing to do with PC.

Why don't you accept that most (if not all) of what you hear on this subject is rubbish. This is my whole point. Right wing papers are constantly putting this cr@p out as part of their anti-govt rhetoric. If I ever sse evidence of such stupid bans bieng officially promoted or endorsed I will join you on your high horse!

[Loosehead]

I take your points about the press, ok

The stories where both true, a copper DID confiscate some Gollies.

An official at a nursery school DID say the above.

That is TRUE. Fact.

I accept that it wasn't the general policy of the local authority as I have above probaly more than once. But also as said above. Do you not accept that these, all be it minor officials do come up with this sort of thing, as I said long ago, the media need ammo, these idiots give it to them.

It's not all Bernard Mannings Fault!

[hal]

FACT:

PACT has established that children at the two Family Centres mentioned in the press sing a variety of descriptive words in the nursery rhyme to turn the song into an action rhyme. They sing 'happy', 'sad', 'bouncing', 'hopping', 'pink', 'blue', 'black' and 'white' sheep etc. and they also exchange 'boy' and 'girl' at the end of the rhyme. This encourages the children to extend their vocabulary and use up some energy.


PACT does not have a policy to change the words of nursery rhymes to conform to notions of political correctness but we are mindful of the use of language and the changes of usage which make some rhymes more acceptable than others, that said 'black sheep' are not words that we find difficult!

PACT is an organisation that values diversity and above all encourages children to enjoy themselves and have fun!



7th March 2006

[Loosehead]

OK hal, so why didn't the guy just say that? He was quoted as saying something like "It's our policy not to used potentially offensive terms" anyway ok fair enough.

And the Gollies?

[hal]

The gollies - two coppers over-reacting to a complaint. I believe they were returned to the shop. There are people who do daft things and yes they do them because they have misunderstood or over-enthusiatically applied policies or instructions. I think we can agree on that. my point has always been that that is all it is - but that it is being used for political purposes by others, particularly the media. Look - we are clearly not going to agree on this! Lets call it quits o:)

[Loosehead]

OK hal

[stoo_pid]

2 parts:

Loosehead, how do you know he didn't say that? Just because it didn't appear in the paper doesn't mean he didn't say it. More importantly, and this is a point I thought you understood, just because a newspaper says someone says something doesn't mean they did say it!!! I've already told you of the occasions when I and my colleagues have been "quoted" in the paper when we never spoke to them.

The Daily Express, who claimed to break the story, didn't even speak to the manager - it was originally a story in the local rag, the Oxford Courier Journal and that's where the first alleged quote appeared. The Express couldn't even be bothered to phone the nurseries themselves & made the rest up.

Now, just so we're all clear on this.

• The nursery rhyme was never banned.


• It has never been banned anywhere by anyone in this country.


• The nurseries still sing Baa Baa Black Sheep.


• The Daily Express lied.


• The press release Hal provided for you is easily found on the PACT website (i.e. evidence). I've already given you the link. Here it is again should you wish to check the truth about all this nonsense.

/cont...