Repatriation - a sensible debate?

[Oneeyedvic]

Much has been said on AB in the recent months regarding repatriation, integration etc and Enoch Powell's speech has also been mentioned.

Questions:

1) If you support repatriation of everybody who you don't consider to be English (and white), do you also think that every English white person should be repatriated back to England? (and are you aware that there are more white English living abroad than there are immigrants here?)

2) Who do you think should do the jobs that currently have skill shortages (like Doctors, nurses etc).

3) Are only English white people allowed to complain about things - if someone is of an immigrant origin then they 'should go back to that country etc'.

4) Is it only immigrants who have to conform to society - since "we are a Christian country" should gays and lesbians be banned?

5) Do you think that just because some black people commit crimes, all black people are dodgy? And if you do, do you believe that all white people are the same?

From a personal point of view, it seems to me that immigration isn't actually the problem. IMHO, it seems that the real problem is the benefits system.

If a government brought in legislation that benefits would no longer be given out and that some degree of work (eg grafitti cleaning, litter picking etc for able bodied, something else for disabled) would need to be done to be able to claim ANY benefit. Further, unless either you or a parent had paid in a certain amount in NI, you would not be eligible for care etc, we would no longer be seen as a 'soft touch'. There would be no 'lazy' people swanning around.

Your thoughts?

[vehelpfulguy]

I do agree about too many benefits.

One answer that people give when you complain about immigrants is "who will do the jobs we dont want to do"

But the reason "English" people do not want to do them is that it is too easy to do no work and live off the state.

Immigrants will often work for 2 or 3 pounds and hour "cash in hand" and they then pay no tax. This is often a better wage than they can get in their own country, even other EU countries like Poland.

As long as we keep supporting people with more and more benefits we will continue to see immigrants arriving here to do the jobs we wont do.

[madein1978]

I believe the ones that have come here for an easy ride should be repatriated, but the ones that have a genuine contribution to make to society should be allowed to stay. I know I have been guilty of making sweeping statements about immigrants before and that was wrong, my true feelings are what I have just written.

[vehelpfulguy]

One of the dilemas we have at the moment is the difference between "immigrants" and the "immigrant problem".

Few people could agree that we should have no immigrants. Every country needs immigrants, and a few arriving in any country is a good thing.

Countires like the USA and Australia are populated by immigrants. Here in the UK companies like Tesco and Marks and Spencer were started by immigrants.

Brunel the great engineer was the son of a French man who moved here.

I have no problem with any of that.

But in the last 20 years we have become swamped by immigrants, be they legal or illegal, aslylum seekers or fake asylum seekers.

We now have cities like Birmingham and Leicester that are heading to 50% immigrants or decended from immigrants.

We have schools were 100% of the pupils are non-white.

We have ghettos in many inner cities where they are virtually white no-go areas.

This is what I mean by the "immigrant problem".

It is not immigrants I am against, it is the immigrant problem that has balloned in the last 20 years, and that is the key difference.

[madein1978]

A lot of people on here would consider that to be racist, vehelpfulguy, but I totally agree with that! There are parts of Yorkshire which are almost 100% asian. But as I said before, as long as they are here to work and become one of us and not to scrounge and cause trouble, it's fine.

[Supernick]

In all questions like this there needs to be strong lines drawn between legal and illegal immigrants. Immigration is not a problem, and help provide us with workers in key skills areas such as the NHS which we could not fill from our own population.

People confuse the immigrant population with a criminal, illegal element, which is obviously a problem.

[raysparx]

Why do you only mention English? what about the Welsh.Irish and Scots?

There is no need to send them all back,but i believe that if somebody comes to live in Britain they should accept that we should have the right to send them back if they break the law with a serious crime,they should also have to learn English,

It doesn't matter to me what colour they are as long as they behave.

Also should we allow the amount of mosques that are being built? how long would a chapel or church last in Baghdad before it was blown up?

it annoys me that some people beg us to take them in but then don't want to abide by our system,

[raysparx]

I didn't mean to imply that the Welsh etc should be sent back,but the problem affects them as much as it does the Engish.

[Lonnie]

The problem with immigration. and if you go back far enough, there's not one of us who are not descended from immigrant, is that it is happening too fast, given a decent period of time, immigrant would become assimilated, and i'm not talking religiously, but adopting our way of life, and it would happen.

Previous 'rushes' of immigrants, invaders or otherwise, include the Romans, eventually assimilated, the Normans, eventually assimilated, the war refugees, and the East African refugees, all eventually assimilated, given time.

Todays immigrants aren't being given that time, mostly by choice, and I believe that immigrants who don't accept the laws of the country they choose to live in, and want to change it to suit themselves, should not be repatriated, if they won't leave voluntarily, they should be kicked out, regardless of race, religion or colour.

Immigrants we need, freebooters, illegals and bigots we don't, we have enough freebooters and bigots of our own.

[libertie]

Entirely agree with the comments about tightening up the benefits system! Certainly don't think that any problems we have here can be miraculously cured by repartiation. I often find that some of the British people in this country drawing benefits are the most racist of us all......it's almost a case of them worrying that the "immigrants" will use up all the benefits cash and there will be nothing left for them!!

[sp1814]

Oneeyedvic

1. Nope - it wouldn't work, and most 'immigrants' are second generation anyway.

2. God only knows...it's not like there are skilled white workers running all over the place ready and willing to take over the gaps.

3. You'd think so, wouldn't you?

4. Hell no! If you ban the gays, what will happen to the Fall line?

5. No - but I'm shocked how many people want to believe it. Someone posted a jaw-dropping question here the other day referring to the murder of that girl in Reading and asking 'Is immigration still a good idea?'

This is the kind of thing that worries me. There are millions of black and Asian kids/adults/children walking about getting on with life, and I worry that the white extremists are getting the upper hand because they're too thick to stand back and look at the whole picture.

Thanks for your question though...very timely.

[Oneeyedvic]

Raysparx: "There is no need to send them all back,but i believe that if somebody comes to live in Britain they should accept that we should have the right to send them back if they break the law with a serious crime,they should also have to learn English,"

So if a Scottish chap living in Corby breaks the law, should he be extradited to Scotland?- and I can't understand a word half of them say, so should they learn to ennunciate? ;-)

"Also should we allow the amount of mosques that are being built? how long would a chapel or church last in Baghdad before it was blown up?"

From the Office of National Statistics, in the last census there were 686,000 Pakistani Muslims.

Here is a list of Church's in Baghdad: http://www.chaldeansonline.net/church/christian.html

From googling, it seems that there are around 600-800,000 Christians in Iraq (pre 1990 it was apparantly over 1.5 Million) and a lot of churches.

So there seem to be a similar amount of Christians there as there seem to be Pakistani Muslims here.

[raysparx]

If they are British,ie. Scotch ,Welsh ,Irish or English then no problem,as for understanding scottish accents well is it any harder than the people from Newcastle? I am from S.E London and lived in north Wales 26 years,some here still can't understand a bloody word I say, I did not realise there were lots of churches in iraq, but you still have to admit we are in danger of being ruled by what Muslims want, I know most are law abiding, but the Radicals should not be here, when we go abroad we are supposed to behave in a manner becomimg that country, but when I see placards that were displayed in London recently,it surely is going to far? and if any of those idiots weren't born here then they should be deported, The British ones charged with incitement to murder !!

[sp1814]

raysparx

Seriously - are you trying to say that when the Brits go abroad they abide by local customs?

Ever heard of the British Empire? Was that the Brits obiding by local customs and laws?

When the Brits migrated to Australia, did they live alongside the Aboriginies (sorry about the spelling) in peace and harmony? And in America? And the West Indies?

I'm stunned at how short our memories are when it suits us.

[raysparx]

I didn't say we did all behave I said we are expected to.and the majority do, as for the past we can't change history.

What about the Spanish,Portugese,Dutch, and italians they have all tried to conquer the world,

I know that when there was a British empire it obviously entitled people from those Countries to have a right to come here,I have no problem with that, But most of the people that are causing us problems sp aren't from any of the countries you mention, Whatever happened in the past is History we should look after Britain and British people first and foremost.

When my wife had Cancer 5 years ago we had to survive on �52 per week because I am self employed I was told I was not entitled to claim,yet people can come here and claim straight away, Sorry it makes me Puke.

[madein1978]

The reason for why there are no skilled white workers is because apprenticeships were done away with. I think it was a bad move to do away with them which is why we have a skills shortage now. Immigrants are only a temporary fix to the problem because skilled ones are in short supply too. The immigrants also fill positions that a lot of brits now think they are too good for, such as toilet cleaners and other horrible jobs, even jobs like bus driving and the like is being left to immigrants, Firstgroup trained and brought over 500 Polish drivers to plug the gap, simply because a lot of people consider it beneath them.

[flashpig]

You should get a proper job, ray.

And why are you 'entitled' to �52 a week, just because your wife has cancer?

[raysparx]

Did think about that flash but all the bloody immigrants have taken them all, Yes I suppose �52 is quite a bit isn't it? we were a bit spoilt !!

[flashpig]

Sorry ray, I read it again, I thought you said you were claiming �52 a week and were grumbling it wasn't enough. I thought you were an ungrateful scrounger.

Seriously though, you should have got a proper job.

Again, sorry for the mix up.

[plonker]

Raysparx, please dont feel bitter against other people claiming benefits. The system is open to abuse and it makes a mockery of the benefit system. But that does not mean you should go against everybody claiming benefits because of the terrible tradgedy in your family. It is the system that is not working and by the way, some immigrants are not allowed to work for a length of time.

[raysparx]

hello plonker, don't get me wrong i am not bitter just bloody annoyed that never having been unemployed in over 40 years,the system failed me and my family,it isn't just me it affects I would not reccomend anyone to go self employed as once you do thats it, you have to get on with it, All I am advocating is look after the British first not all the scroungers that are coming here and taking advantage of our system then slagging us off!. And yes I know we have plenty of British scroungers,but at least they are British,

And the �52 a week was my wifes sickness benefit I got ****** all so thats all we had coming in,it was a struggle but no I am not bitter , I am eternally greatful for the fantastic service given by the health sevice,but the social security side is a joke run by w-----s