Knives

[electricblue]

With the knife amnesty going on at mo,my sons school has informed us that after the hols the class must take in a SHARP KNIFE for cooking,a class of 14 year olds,carried around all day,is it just me or is it just plain bloody ignorant,no knife,no cooking,,,

[gessoo]

Vic, If schools keep knives securely then, although the children know where they are far more difficult to get at and there is somewhat more supervision. Likewise, yes, the child who slashed all the clothes could have gone and stolen a knife (with difficulty) from the schools locked kitchen area, but that would have been a tad more difficult. How on earth can schools cope with a situation if it were fine for all kids to carry sharp knives? At what age do you think that it would be OK to carry knives?

I will say no more Vic. I think electricblue is completely right to be upset and to tell the school what she thinks.

[gessoo]

And a few knives isn't going to cost the school a fortune! There is usually no more than one class of pupils cooking at any one time. What do you propose they spend their money on that they have saved on not buying knives? Will the kids have to take in their own laboratory equipment soon, as well to save some money. Why not cart everything in from home.

No more, I promise.

[Oneeyedvic]

"If schools keep knives securely then," - ah okay. So firstly need some sort of safe - or will a locked classroom do? Does the classroom have to be supervised at all times? What happens if a kid breaks in, gets a knife and then stabs someone - is the school responsible - maybe. Will someone try and sue? - Definitely.

"How on earth can schools cope with a situation if it were fine for all kids to carry sharp knives" - not sure where this came from. I never suggested this. (However, I am still awaiting an answer to scissors and scalpels - are they allowed?)

"Will the kids have to take in their own laboratory equipment soon" - well on the basis that the average family does not have lab equipment, I would say no. (I'd say the average family has a kitchen knife if only to pierce the film of a tv dinner). I assume that kids have to take in pens, sports clothes etc - or should the school provide all of that free as well?

[gessoo]

Vic,

I'm here again. Having worked in schools for a long time I can assure you that they do keep knives for cooking and that children don't have to bring in their own. The knives are kept in locked areas. We are talking about one school here - I have never heard of this before. Of course anyone who wanted to steal a knife could probably do so but they could also steal lots of other things from schools that could do harm - so do you suggest that schools don't keep anything dangerous in case they get sued. Why is it only knives?

By asking the cookery class to come in with sharp knives the school is saying that it's OK for the kids to carry sharp knives in the street on the way to school and in the playground and school premises all day. That is what I meant about it being OK to carry knives. It isn't OK at all, under any circumstances, to ask parents to give their child a sharp knife otherwise they won't be allowed to cook. I wouldn't certainly have sent my son out with my kitchen knife, which is razor sharp, at 14 years old.

I think this is getting to be argument for arguments sake, so now I am really going. Have a good weekend Vic.

[gessoo]

Sorry, I forgot your question about scissors and scalpels. Scalpels I have no answer for because I have no knowledge of kids carrying them and certainly was never asked to provide one for my son. Scissors are usually required for cutting paper. Paper scissors can be dangerous (anything can be used dangerously) but hardly compare to a sharp kitchen knife!

Bye.

[smudge]

...A bit late, but been out all day.

I understand your fears electricblue & whole heartedly agree that children should not carry knives to school, for all the reasons given.

There is absolutely no way we would have allowed either of our daughters to carry knives to school for cookery. You just never know - their bags could have got mislaid & the knives could have ended up in the wrong hands.

End of story.

[electricblue]

Its nice to know you agree with me,we have spoke to the head,he has till monday lunch to ring us back,if not,we will do what we have to do,thanx all!!

[PhilBy]

What about meal times.......... do they eat with a knife and fork or not? I'm sorry but I see a kitchen knife as a tool and just because some louts think it is cool to go around sticking knives in people should not mean we all jump on the media paranoia bandwagon. The problem is the thugs, not the impliments they use! The last two murders I heard reported on the news the victims had killed by the use of a hammer................ should not the media now be highlighting how easy these 'weapons' can be purchased and be calling for a hammer amnesty....or would that be rather silly?

Hammer amnesty....try saying that after a few drinks :-)

[Ralph]

I think you're missing an ideal opportunity to instill some responsibility in the kids and educate them about a very topical current affair, rather than transfer all the responsibility onto a third party (the school & staff).

You can get the child/young adult to watch you wrap the knife well and/or put it in a small box while simultaneously telling them (in a non-patronising way) about how dangerous these things can be when used in a dumba$$ or careless way.

30 seconds on the BBC news site will provide you with more than enough material to prove to them that there are huge and occasionally terminal consequences for misuse of an otherwise useful item. Then off to school they go with a feeling that they're trusted enough to carry the burden of this responsibility. Most people will try to excel and do their best in a situation like this.

I'm most certainly not trying to tell anyone how to raise children, this is just how I'd do it.

Also, in doing this, I'd be taking back some of the responsibility that people complain about being taken over by a "nanny state". Everybody wins, but especially the children.

[kipchik]

For every sensible child there is a not so sensible child would you be so prepared to send in your child with a knife knowing that billy bloggs down the road is in the class and up for a bit of trouble??I think not!

[Oneeyedvic]

but you will still allow billy bloggs to take a caricket bat with him to school?

Personally, I think you have a far better chance of surviving an attack by a kitchen knife that you do a cricket bat

[kipchik]

From the last two weeks,,,,,,that is a silly argument,,,,we are talking illegal carrying of knives,NOT cricket bats

[Oneeyedvic]

"we are talking illegal carrying of knives,".... no we are not - we are talking about carrying kitchen knifes to cut food - not machettes, flick knifes etc. going out armed to carry out an offense.

And that is my point, it seems that some people can't seem to tell the difference and think that they are both the same thing.

It still seems that people jump on to the band wagon about what has been in the media for the last couple of weeks and don't actually think about what is going on.

The facts of the matter are: The school has asked parents to supply their children with a suitbale knife for home economics.

This has been turned into: My school has asked my poor 14 year old to carry a concealed weapon that may put temptaion in either his or one of his colleagues way and he may stab someone. At home I make sure that all my knives are accounted for and that it would be impossible for him to conceal one. I also know where he is all the time and ensure that all the shops that sell cooking knives know who he is and his age so that he can't buy one.

I will put this as simply as I can. If someone wants to commit a knife crime - they will. If someone wants to attack someone - they will. If you have a knife on your possession in your pocket, it may well be used against you.If you have a kitchen knife well wrapped in a box, it is fairly doubtful that this will be used against you.

[kipchik]

You're sounding ridiculous,,,,,and doubt no one but me is reading your gabble now,so go back to cloud cuckoo land and i'll go listen to the sense my dog is speaking,,,,blah blah blah!

[gessoo]

Do let us know the outcome electricblue. I have just been reminded of this thread by the lunchtime news where knife crime is at the forefront.