ChatterBank0 min ago
1 in 6 people would not sit next to a muslim on hte tube
Is this understandable ( I think it is, and 1 in 6 is a low estimate). If you look at it this way.....
If every tube train had one red chair on it, now there is a 1 in a million chance that that chair will blow up (i.e. there is a counter on the chair when the millionth person sits on it, it blows up) If this was a real situation then nobody would ever sit on the red chair on the train, because although its a slim risk its still a risk. Right so there have been over 30 individual susessful or unsucessful attempts of suside bommings on the tube and there are not 30 million muslims in the uk, so the risk that one of them will blow themselves up is greater than 1 in a million, so is it not understandable how people feel?
If every tube train had one red chair on it, now there is a 1 in a million chance that that chair will blow up (i.e. there is a counter on the chair when the millionth person sits on it, it blows up) If this was a real situation then nobody would ever sit on the red chair on the train, because although its a slim risk its still a risk. Right so there have been over 30 individual susessful or unsucessful attempts of suside bommings on the tube and there are not 30 million muslims in the uk, so the risk that one of them will blow themselves up is greater than 1 in a million, so is it not understandable how people feel?
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I did see it on a uk website but I cant find it now but this is the same artical..
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-09/06/ content_682998.htm
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-09/06/ content_682998.htm
I don't think your red chair analogy is very strong to be honest.
First off, if the chair has a counter attached which will cause it to explode when the millionth person sits on it, then that's different to a chair which has 1 in a million chance of exploding. A chair with a 1 in a million chance of exploding may never explode, a chair which explodes when the millionth person sits on it is an inevitability.
Further, a 1 in a million chance is not just slim, it's irrelevant. No rationale person would changed their behaviour on a one in a million chance, let alone the vastly smaller chances of getting blown up on the tube.
Tube journeys per day 2,670,000
Days since 07/07 396
Tube journeys since 07/07 1,057,320,000
Deaths BT 52
Injuries BT 700
% Deaths on 07/07 0.0019%
% Injuries on 07/07 0.0262%
% Deaths since 07/07 0.000005%
% Injuries since 07/07 0.000066%
By way of comparison, your chances of dying by falling out of bed are 1 in 2,000,000. You have a one in 685,000 chance of drowning in your bath. You have a 1 in 43,500 chance of being killed in a work related accident. Chances of dying in a road accident? 1 in 8,000.
Are you going to stop getting out of bed? More likely than getting blown up on the tube.
Are you going to stop bathing? More dangerous than travelling on the tube.
Etc.
Personally, I'm not going to get too upset about the one in 20,333,077 chance of being killed on the tube.
First off, if the chair has a counter attached which will cause it to explode when the millionth person sits on it, then that's different to a chair which has 1 in a million chance of exploding. A chair with a 1 in a million chance of exploding may never explode, a chair which explodes when the millionth person sits on it is an inevitability.
Further, a 1 in a million chance is not just slim, it's irrelevant. No rationale person would changed their behaviour on a one in a million chance, let alone the vastly smaller chances of getting blown up on the tube.
Tube journeys per day 2,670,000
Days since 07/07 396
Tube journeys since 07/07 1,057,320,000
Deaths BT 52
Injuries BT 700
% Deaths on 07/07 0.0019%
% Injuries on 07/07 0.0262%
% Deaths since 07/07 0.000005%
% Injuries since 07/07 0.000066%
By way of comparison, your chances of dying by falling out of bed are 1 in 2,000,000. You have a one in 685,000 chance of drowning in your bath. You have a 1 in 43,500 chance of being killed in a work related accident. Chances of dying in a road accident? 1 in 8,000.
Are you going to stop getting out of bed? More likely than getting blown up on the tube.
Are you going to stop bathing? More dangerous than travelling on the tube.
Etc.
Personally, I'm not going to get too upset about the one in 20,333,077 chance of being killed on the tube.
waldo - there is a difference between avoidable and not avoidable risk. If there are little not inconvinient things to reduce the risk of getting hurt like looking when crossing the road of not sitting next to a muslim on a train why not do it. Plus your figures are flawed, where did you get them from? plus you need to look at how many people use the tube not number of jorneys
admarlow
Weirdly (you may want to sit down for this), I understand where you're coming from.
However, Waldo is right (by the way, excellent explanation of the laws of probability - something that foxed me completely at school).
Back to the point - I understand why some people could be concerned..."could he be a bomber?" but like Waldo says - the chances of being blown up by a suicide bomber are so small as to be completely insignificant.
Put it this way - I'd rather sit next to a Muslim lad, than someone with B.O.
...which brings it back nicely to Waldo's point about the chance of dying in the bath...somehow...
Weirdly (you may want to sit down for this), I understand where you're coming from.
However, Waldo is right (by the way, excellent explanation of the laws of probability - something that foxed me completely at school).
Back to the point - I understand why some people could be concerned..."could he be a bomber?" but like Waldo says - the chances of being blown up by a suicide bomber are so small as to be completely insignificant.
Put it this way - I'd rather sit next to a Muslim lad, than someone with B.O.
...which brings it back nicely to Waldo's point about the chance of dying in the bath...somehow...
If you don't know where I got the figures, how can you possibly know if they're flawed?
They came from a Mirror story that I found by Googling 'Odds of Dying UK', the top link. If you want to find your own, go ahead. Even if they're not the same, they are still going to make the point entirely clearly that the chances of being blown up on the tube are infitesimally small and there's huge number of extremely mundane activities far more likely to kill you.
Moreover, what do you imagine people's precautions are actually going to be? When people say they won't sit next to a Muslim, they're not saying they're going to refuse to take the tube. If you need to use the tube to make your journey, then you need to use the tube. As far as I'm aware sitting three seats away didn't actually make a huge amount of difference to the poor sods on 07/07.
Are the public suggesting they're going to make all the Muslims get in a different carriage that gets pulled behind the rest of the train on a long rope?
They came from a Mirror story that I found by Googling 'Odds of Dying UK', the top link. If you want to find your own, go ahead. Even if they're not the same, they are still going to make the point entirely clearly that the chances of being blown up on the tube are infitesimally small and there's huge number of extremely mundane activities far more likely to kill you.
Moreover, what do you imagine people's precautions are actually going to be? When people say they won't sit next to a Muslim, they're not saying they're going to refuse to take the tube. If you need to use the tube to make your journey, then you need to use the tube. As far as I'm aware sitting three seats away didn't actually make a huge amount of difference to the poor sods on 07/07.
Are the public suggesting they're going to make all the Muslims get in a different carriage that gets pulled behind the rest of the train on a long rope?
Good grief... as Nox says we take risks everyday.
When all the stuff was going off with the IRA and the Loyalists would you not sit next to a white male cause he looked 'Irish.'
In answer to your question, I'd sit wherever there was a seat. Frankly, if they are an extremist with a bomb you're going to die anyway by virtue of being in the same carrage.
When all the stuff was going off with the IRA and the Loyalists would you not sit next to a white male cause he looked 'Irish.'
In answer to your question, I'd sit wherever there was a seat. Frankly, if they are an extremist with a bomb you're going to die anyway by virtue of being in the same carrage.
admarlow....I don't think he wore it specifically for the tube!
Getting back to your original question, I think the more important point is to diffuse the public's fears of young Muslims.
This is something that I reckon will take years and a good deal of level-headedness on both sides to overcome.
Prejudice will always exist - for instance, if I'm out on the way to meet mates on a Saturday, I always notice women shifting their handbags away from me. However, the same women may see me with my suit and tie on the following Monday and not bat an eye.
Human instinct is for self-preservation...we just need to be a bit sensible and not jump at shadows.
Getting back to your original question, I think the more important point is to diffuse the public's fears of young Muslims.
This is something that I reckon will take years and a good deal of level-headedness on both sides to overcome.
Prejudice will always exist - for instance, if I'm out on the way to meet mates on a Saturday, I always notice women shifting their handbags away from me. However, the same women may see me with my suit and tie on the following Monday and not bat an eye.
Human instinct is for self-preservation...we just need to be a bit sensible and not jump at shadows.
This is exactly the sort of scare-mongering tactic that the American media have adopted for years, and is now coming over here - I refer to the statistic, rather than the discussion offered by the posting.
Surely we are only able to be wary of Muslims because we think they are easily identifiable. I personally would be far more frightened of a fundamentalist right-wing Christian like george Bush and his army of followers than i would of someone who has a beard and swarthy skin - but of course they are not as easy to spot.
The insidious idea that all young Muslim men are potential terrorists is ludicrous and dangerous. If Mr Bush wants a 'war on terror' - let me hold my sides at the stupidity of that catch-all label - he need look no frurther than the mirror - this is a man who denies abortion to women because he deems it to be wrong, and invades other countries whom he feels should govern themselves according to his rules. Terrorist? Food for thought I think ...
Surely we are only able to be wary of Muslims because we think they are easily identifiable. I personally would be far more frightened of a fundamentalist right-wing Christian like george Bush and his army of followers than i would of someone who has a beard and swarthy skin - but of course they are not as easy to spot.
The insidious idea that all young Muslim men are potential terrorists is ludicrous and dangerous. If Mr Bush wants a 'war on terror' - let me hold my sides at the stupidity of that catch-all label - he need look no frurther than the mirror - this is a man who denies abortion to women because he deems it to be wrong, and invades other countries whom he feels should govern themselves according to his rules. Terrorist? Food for thought I think ...
I agree that Waldo's figures are flawed. It doesn't matter where the data comes from, it's the fact that you used the number of journeys and number of injuries over whatever period to calculate the probability of being killed by a terrorist on the tube.
Contrary to popular belief, probability is a subjective thing. If you believe that it doesn't alter the probability of your being killed if someone's on the tube wearing traditional Islamic dress, so be it, but if they were fiddling with wires in a rucksack/sweating/fidgeting would you still stick to your statistics? Just as these things might make you suspicious, so Islamic dress makes others suspicious.
Soon after the bombings I noticed people seemed suspicious of me just because I was tanned, unshaven and carrying a blue rucksack.
Contrary to popular belief, probability is a subjective thing. If you believe that it doesn't alter the probability of your being killed if someone's on the tube wearing traditional Islamic dress, so be it, but if they were fiddling with wires in a rucksack/sweating/fidgeting would you still stick to your statistics? Just as these things might make you suspicious, so Islamic dress makes others suspicious.
Soon after the bombings I noticed people seemed suspicious of me just because I was tanned, unshaven and carrying a blue rucksack.
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