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Mosside killing. why is a boy aged 15 cycling the streets at 02:30 am
I refer to the dastardly killing of a boy in manchester last week. But why was he out and about on his cycle at 02:30 AM. Church going or not, gang member or not, when a boy that age is let out at that time would you have any sympathy/care/concern for the parent (s)?
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One report I read said he was going from one party to another.
But that aside, the police now seem to believe it was a case of mistaken identity. Shame he wasn't at home, in bed.
I do have sympathy for his parents, yes. They could be said to be negligent, but the outcome is hardly proportionate to their (alledged) failings as parents, is it?
But that aside, the police now seem to believe it was a case of mistaken identity. Shame he wasn't at home, in bed.
I do have sympathy for his parents, yes. They could be said to be negligent, but the outcome is hardly proportionate to their (alledged) failings as parents, is it?
Yeah, you're right. It's all their fault. Someone should sit them down and tell them that. Perhaps we could charge them with manslaughter?
What a crass, middle class comment.
Come on, it's not as if he's 10.
I wouldn't let my kids do it, but it's not that bad. It certainly shouldn't stop you feeling sympathy for the parents.
What a crass, middle class comment.
Come on, it's not as if he's 10.
I wouldn't let my kids do it, but it's not that bad. It certainly shouldn't stop you feeling sympathy for the parents.
The kid was cycling and minding his own business and shouldn't have been shot. Why are some people looking to apportion blame to his parents because they let him go to a party? I have let my 15 year old son go to a party and get a cab home, and to be honst I can't see the difference. The problem is with the people who shoot each other, not with the people who cycle to and from parties.
Because you let your child ( who may be only days away from his 16th birthday when he can join the army, get married, smoke legally etc etc etc) go out late at night, does not mean you are a bad or negligent parent so yes I have huge amounts of sympathy for his poor parents.
Would it have been better had he been shot at 4.00 o'clock in the afternoon then, would they have automatically garnered your sympathy as bastions of good parenthood?
I'm not prepared to judge people I don't know when the facts of the case are unknown to me as I think it's presumptious, unkind and wrong.
Because you let your child ( who may be only days away from his 16th birthday when he can join the army, get married, smoke legally etc etc etc) go out late at night, does not mean you are a bad or negligent parent so yes I have huge amounts of sympathy for his poor parents.
Would it have been better had he been shot at 4.00 o'clock in the afternoon then, would they have automatically garnered your sympathy as bastions of good parenthood?
I'm not prepared to judge people I don't know when the facts of the case are unknown to me as I think it's presumptious, unkind and wrong.
Do you assume then, that the parent's are NOT sitting at home thinking "If Only I had said he couldn't go, if only he'd been at home, it's all my fault, I should have gone to pick him up, given him money for a cab......"
i think probably, the parent's are at home giving them selves a real beating and grieving for the 'what if..." I'm not sure we need to kick them too.
No body deserves to outlive their child.
i think probably, the parent's are at home giving them selves a real beating and grieving for the 'what if..." I'm not sure we need to kick them too.
No body deserves to outlive their child.
I would say a great deal of 'parenting' is about looking after the child, keeping them from harm. So I disagree, nox. Letting a 15-year old wander the streets of Mosside (where I wouldn't go dare in daylight) in the wee hours is far from responsible and caring, IMHO.
So, in a week, he could have joined the army. And if he went to Afghanistan, what would the Army's thoughts have been on letting even a trained soldier wander the streets of Kandahar, alone, at 2:30 in the morning. If he'd survived, I'd imagine he would have been disciplined.
It comes down to understanding and managing risk - I would venture he would have been far less likely to come to harm at 4pm than 2:30am.
And why is it so 'middle class' and thus contemptible to care for your children?
So, in a week, he could have joined the army. And if he went to Afghanistan, what would the Army's thoughts have been on letting even a trained soldier wander the streets of Kandahar, alone, at 2:30 in the morning. If he'd survived, I'd imagine he would have been disciplined.
It comes down to understanding and managing risk - I would venture he would have been far less likely to come to harm at 4pm than 2:30am.
And why is it so 'middle class' and thus contemptible to care for your children?
My point about the army, siamsal,which you rather missed in your haste to be critical, is that at 16 we consider someone to be old enough to enrol as cannon fodder, yet at 15, they are too young to go to a party until 2.30
Nothing to do with the army letting them out at 2.30, just the fact that they are considered adult enough to join and get blown to smithereens.I can't see how a few days make that enormous difference which you seem to see, so I'd be so grateful if you could enlighten me.
Nothing to do with the army letting them out at 2.30, just the fact that they are considered adult enough to join and get blown to smithereens.I can't see how a few days make that enormous difference which you seem to see, so I'd be so grateful if you could enlighten me.
whether it is right or wrong the child is out at that time (and don't get me wrong, if it were one of mine, I'd arrange a pickup and drop off), the question was "Do we have sympathy for the parent's?"
The answer is clearly yes, I don't know how you can say to a parent, what ever their error, "It's your fault your kid is dead, I have no sympathy for you..."
Frankly, that's just heartless. The parents may have a made a mistake, or they may do the same over again, they still have my sympathy as no parent should see their child murdered by another.
Would you say to holly wells and jessica chapman's parents: "Well, you let your two ten year olds walk the street by themselves all summer....." would you say to jamie bulger's mum " you were the one not using reins, you deserve everything you get..." would you say to sarah payne's mother "You were the one letting sara in the field all by herself....." of course not.
It is not the parent's fault, it is the fault of whomever pulled that trigger.
The answer is clearly yes, I don't know how you can say to a parent, what ever their error, "It's your fault your kid is dead, I have no sympathy for you..."
Frankly, that's just heartless. The parents may have a made a mistake, or they may do the same over again, they still have my sympathy as no parent should see their child murdered by another.
Would you say to holly wells and jessica chapman's parents: "Well, you let your two ten year olds walk the street by themselves all summer....." would you say to jamie bulger's mum " you were the one not using reins, you deserve everything you get..." would you say to sarah payne's mother "You were the one letting sara in the field all by herself....." of course not.
It is not the parent's fault, it is the fault of whomever pulled that trigger.
harsh words because the parents have failed in their duty to protect their child. they have failed in their duty to ensure that the child is safe and well at home especially at the age when the child is not so aware and able to take care of himself. I dont know anyone who allows a child of 15 out at that time of the night. if the place has a reputation for gun violence then i would be even more careful. harsh words yes, but a cautionary tale nonetheless.
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mmiffi let me give you an example.
within the last few years a mother left her child strapped in the car seat and nipped in to the local Tescos for 35 minutes. It was 35 degrees in the summer and the windows were shut. the child cooked to death. This was in the news and it happened in the UK.
In this example I will say....'its your fault the child is dead and i have no sympathy for you..........
within the last few years a mother left her child strapped in the car seat and nipped in to the local Tescos for 35 minutes. It was 35 degrees in the summer and the windows were shut. the child cooked to death. This was in the news and it happened in the UK.
In this example I will say....'its your fault the child is dead and i have no sympathy for you..........
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Dom Tuk
Think back to when you were 15 though...I know I was a sneaky little devil whose whole existence rested on pulling a fast one over on my mother, who fortunately (for me) knew every trick in the book.
What I mean is, you can never know what your kids are up to or where they are 100% of the time.
So my sympathy does indeed extend to the parents, and the parents of every child taken before their time.
Think back to when you were 15 though...I know I was a sneaky little devil whose whole existence rested on pulling a fast one over on my mother, who fortunately (for me) knew every trick in the book.
What I mean is, you can never know what your kids are up to or where they are 100% of the time.
So my sympathy does indeed extend to the parents, and the parents of every child taken before their time.
I appreciate where you heart is at Dom Tuk, I really do, it breaks my heart too to hear of children suffering and dying due to gross neglect, but I really can't equate someone's 15 year old son (though it wouldn't be my choice) being out that late at night with someone leaving a tiny tot in a car in that kind of heat (which frankly is just plain stupidity). However, presumably, the mother didn't purposely harm her child, she is guilty of extreme and utter stupidity, but murder?
I just think that in the majority of these cases, parents don't need our condemnation as they are most likely condemning themselves already.
We also don't know whether or not the 15 year old was disobeying his curfew, For all we know, the parent's may have said "Be back by 11" and he was being disobedient. We also don't know if he was supposed to be in that part of town either....
I think the parents will hammer themselves for the rest of their days in anguish. They don't need our cruelty to boot.
Anyone who has seen their child die, knows that it leaves a gaping, ripping hole in your heart for all eternity, and never ever does that pain go away. Some day you stop crying, but you never stop hurting. Whether they die of natural causes, or a car crash or a murder, such as this, the parents are suffering beyond our wildest nightmares and they have my utter sympathy.
I just think that in the majority of these cases, parents don't need our condemnation as they are most likely condemning themselves already.
We also don't know whether or not the 15 year old was disobeying his curfew, For all we know, the parent's may have said "Be back by 11" and he was being disobedient. We also don't know if he was supposed to be in that part of town either....
I think the parents will hammer themselves for the rest of their days in anguish. They don't need our cruelty to boot.
Anyone who has seen their child die, knows that it leaves a gaping, ripping hole in your heart for all eternity, and never ever does that pain go away. Some day you stop crying, but you never stop hurting. Whether they die of natural causes, or a car crash or a murder, such as this, the parents are suffering beyond our wildest nightmares and they have my utter sympathy.
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