Bowling for Canada???

[wnjxc21]

Now that Canada has had a school shooting, will michael moore be removing..

' bowling for columbine' from distribution?

It seems a huge part of his arguement in that Doc/film was based on the fact that only americans shoot each other because canadian law is more strict...

his interviews with canadian kids would be somewhat different if they were asking kids in Montreal this morning!

[kick3m0n]

or maybe the point is that there are multiple incidents of this type in the US BECAUSE of US gun laws, whereas this is the first I've heard of in Canada, perhaps BECAUSE their gun laws are much more restrictive?
I'm not sure that you've quite got the point of his film (ie your third paragraph) - I think he was suggesting that far fewer americans would die from gunshot wounds each year if their gun laws were different, and compared it to the (relatively small) number of gun related deaths in Canada per year.

[admarlow]

OOh I hate the way M.Moore bends the truth/selectivly edits things to fit his argument (and his mate Ralph Nider (SP) who just happens to be one of Bushs opponents. You want to see propoganda, watch a Moore ''doc''

[jake-the-peg]

So the with some of the strictest Firearms laws the UK has 1.3 firearm murders per 100,000 of population.

Canada again has 1.9

America with some of the most liberal has over 5.3

Four times the UK

If you don't believe this is because of gun control how do you explain this?

Are Canadians and Brits just nicer people?

[mountainboo]

Admarlow, I watched Farenheit 9/11 recently and found it extremley insightful. I think he's a brilliant film maker. Everything he says makes total sense and whats more, he's being truthful. I take my hat off to him.

[admarlow]

did you know his best mate and ex employer has run against Bush for President, maybe he may be bias?

[Loosehead]

come on mountain! Moore is the most biased film maker I've ever seen. None of his films can be taken seriously, they all have huge holes part truths and selecttive editing. Remember the "cold dead hands" bit from BFC?? and 911 was just lefty rant. MM is a brilliant exploiter of the gullible, he panders to the anti western, hand wringing, liberal left who lap up his spoutings unquestioningly.

[mountainboo]

Ok, didn't know that. So was he not being truthful about Iraq being invaded for no reason and Bush being loyal to the Saudi's etc? I'm trying to get to grips with this whole subject. Perhaps my comment 'I take my hat off to him' was a little strong, I retract that. Is Bush good or bad then? Is there any truth to MM's doc 9/11?

[admarlow]

The only sources and proof MM uses are his own nopinions, and therefore only taken seriously by people with the same bias view or people who know nothing about the subject (bar reading a tabloid) If all the things he says are correct why isn't Gore running around giving out free copies?

[sp1814]

But don't you think it's good that we're seeing more documentaries doing well at the cinema (The Corporation, An Inconvenient Truth, Enron: The Smartest Guys In The Room, Supersize Me)? Moore has been pretty influential in the revival of these types of film.

Yes, Moore rants, and builds arguments based on his own politcal beliefs, but surely that's good - it provokes discussion. We should never take anyone's opinion as being the absolute truth.

Better a thought provoking documentary than, say, Pirates Of The Carribean 2...which is, frankly, poo..

Personally, I found

[newtron]

I think Micheal Moore makes some good points, but he does skew the truth to support his biased opinions. The one thing I did like about Bowling For Columbine is that he attempted to answer the question concerning America's high gun crime rate compared to other countries by examining basic cultural differences rather than attributting it all to differences in gun laws.

[admarlow]

Its not good though when an opinion is presented as a fact

[mountainboo]

And that is basically how he has stated it. When I was watching it I was thinking, well this must be the truth. The thought didn't really occur to me untill this conversation that it was all based on his opinion

[mountainboo]

But why, after Bush had been made aware 'the nation was under attack' by staff did he just sit there and stare into space for what seemed like an eternity? If it was me I'd of got the hell out of there and got to work!

[jake-the-peg]

You simply cannot take anything you read in newspapers or see on TV or Cinema at face value.

Very few people go out to make any sort of program with an open mind.

You have to weigh each one against the other.

That's why I'd really like to know how opponents of gun control explain the high rate of violent crime in the US or is it that they despute the figures?

[admarlow]

A) How long he sat there is not verified this could have been edited
B)How do we know that this was when he was told, or even what the message was? (well because MM say it is)
C)Maybe he was considering a plan of action which is a better idea than going into a blind panic and making everyone else panic to. Im guessing he had some pretty big decisions to make, Id give him a few minutes to make them? no?

[sp1814]

admarlow,

But there are certain well documented facts that he included that a lot of people were unaware of (I'm talking about Farenheit 9/11) - members of the Bin Laden family being flow out of the US on September 12th...stuff like that.

Yes, he's opinionated, and there's some stuff in there that I don't think he argues well, but on the whole, I found it impressive...it lost it towards the end where I felt he started ranting, but on the whole, enjoyable.

[sp1814]

However, what he tends to do, and I've seen through this when I read 'Stupid White Men' is assemble a number of facts, and draw a conclusion which isn't necessarily well argued...sometimes he does that 'leap of logic' which I guess he thinks he can get away with, because his audience (broadly) supports his political leanings.

On THAT, I think he's a bit weak.

...and I didn't like his interview with Charlton Heston in 'Bowling For Columbine' because it felt like he was bullying a very old man...easy target.

[mountainboo]

Your right, there was know way of knowing how long he sat there or even if what his staff said in his ear was that the nation was under attack. I must admit he did look rather worried. MM said he was probably thinking 'who's done me over'. I know he was close with the BinLaden family, but arn't they extremley wealthy and have nothing to do with Usama? Why were they flown out of U.S on 12th Sept 2001?

[mountainboo]

Waldo and sp1814, are you there?

[WaldoMcFroog]

Actually, one of the single worst things in Farenheit 911 is when MM starts editorialising over the footage of Bush. The footage speaks eloquently for itself and does not require Moore trying to suggest things which are evidentally pure speculation over the top. He should have restrained himself.