Cheap booze from Europe

[jake-the-peg]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2451 928,00.html

Do people think this would be a good or a bad thing if the EU force the Government to let us order cheap beer and cigarettes over the internet?

[admarlow]

I think bad as all the duty on them would go abroard, plus the reason that a lot of people don't smoke more is the cost so it will mean less money raised in tax and an even greater burden on the NHS. Even more reason to get out of Europe.

[Loosehead]

I think it would be great initially but the government would have to recoup the lost income from somewhere and that means tax increases elsewhere. The only other choice is to leave the EU and do what we like.

[sp1814]

Loosehead has hit the nail on the head.

The UK receives billions each year from the duty on cigs and booze. The Exchequer would look to recoup this through other taxes.

...and really, we shouldn't be encouraging people to smoke.

[LazyGun]

If you are a regular smoker and/or drinker, this would seem on the face of it to be an excellent outcome.
As other posters have already commented though, the treasury would need to make up the shortfall somehow (est �15 billion, probably more), and how would they go about doing that? Increasing VAT on all other items, or increasing personal taxation maybe?
Add to that the livelihoods and businesses that would be threatened (corner shops, off licences, manufacturing etc), and this prospect starts to look less attractive.
There is also the public health aspect. There are many many now ex smokers whose impetus to quit was helped greatly by the economics of giving up.

[jno]

a triumph for the British national sport of binge-drinking, surely?

[admarlow]

or a triumph for the great European sport of messing things up.....

[jake-the-peg]

Of course the UK could lower taxation on drink and tobacco itself and attract European buyers to order from British Companies.

In effect a free market in taxation - isn't competition like that how capitalism is meant to work?

[admarlow]

yes but since we have half of europe over here claiming benefits or working and sending the money home, its hardly a level playing field is it?

[youngmafbog]

Nice to give Brown a poke in the eye, but as pointed out it will probably come round and bite us in the bum !
Really though how much will actually be lost? I can see the benefits for heavy smokers but I'm sure that the majority who buy the odd bottle wont bother.
Also rememeber that most of the binge drinkers buy in Pubs and i dont think they will be selling duty free beer.
So bottom line is for burden on NHS. Simple, if you smoke you dont get treatment.

[youngmafbog]

Oh and lets not forget that these items will have to be bought using credit cards so that stops the 'sewer' classes who mostly dont have one and if they did could not use the money from illegal cabbing whilst on benefits to pay for the CC bill.

[jake-the-peg]

So if I get this right - we think it's a bad thing.

If they'd have caused duty to go up would this have been a good thing?

Or is it just an act of faith that anything the EU do is automatically a bad thing?

[Loosehead]

I suppose they could equalise duty in all the EU countries and hence make the whole thing unnecessary. I mean we would get less duty than now but when all the smuggling is taken into account it probably would make that much difference and it would wipe out smuggling at the same time.

[admarlow]

^^ I don't think any of the Scandinavian countries would go for that where a pint can be �8 because of duty.

[Loosehead]

depends on your situation jake, I mean it's good if you are hardlne smoker but bad if you object to having your taxes increased in other areas to pay for the hardliners. It's also bad if you are trying to get people to stop smoking/drinking as this encourages it. It's also bad if you are trying to stretch the health service and have to pay for all the health problems. On balance I'd say it's a bad thing.

[sp1814]

Loosehead

I don't see how the EU could impose an equalised duty tariff across the region without a whole load of political flak being thrown at it:

EU PINHEADS TRY TO DICTATE BRIT TAXES

That kind of thing.

Also remember - we can already buy boozwe and cigs at knock down prices...all this directive means is that we don't have to do the booze cruise...

[youngmafbog]

SP1814, Worrying about political flak doesn't usually bother the EU especially if its the UK its offending. So long as the French are in it'll be all hunky dory.
Loosheads idea is quite sensible. Wont happen for that reason though, nothing to do with political flak I mean we can't have the common man able to make a choice for himself can we.

[LazyGun]

I think the consequences of this could have some negative complications jake, but if the case is upheld it could lead to a major rethink of VAT and the way it is applied across Europe, and that could be a good thing.

There was a panorama programme on a few months ago that outlined how the disparity in VAT across Europe and the rules on when it was applied gave rise to some massive fraud opportunities that was costing the british taxpayer in particular billions... the IR cannot keep up with the fraudsters ,so I personally think that a review of VAT is urgently required.

[Lonnie]

It'll be interesting to see what the p&p on all this stuff will cost.

[bazwillrun]

this gets to the heart of what the EU is all about.
thats what they want and will get harmonisation, on taxes across the board.
sooner or later if we stay in the EU we will have to capitulate and agree to it.

We should get out now, and claim our country back, to set our own laws and taxes, before its too late

[mj2000uk]

I personally smiled when I saw this item on TV. My ex-husband does a roaring trade in driving over to France, loading up his van with booze and fags and then selling them over here. He is a big player in this game and can sell a big van full of the stuff within a few hours. Needless to say, he does not provide for his son as these 'earnings' are ill gotten gains.
Hopefully, this new ruling will cut him, as the middle man, out completely!
Happy days!