Personal Freedoms being eroded

[noxlumos]

The Govt are proposing to hand out "Gangster Asbo's" to people they THINK "might" be involved in crime. This means that they can make orders preventing you from meeting people, using phones, or corresponding by email because they "think" you are a criminal. Well s0d it I'm sorry if this becomes law I'm leaving the UK. Tony Blair is a disgusting joke that thinks he's God and he has disamantled the way of life and the values which have kept this soucntry somewhere great to live. I'm truly appalled. Anyone's else's views very very welcome.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/17012007/325/civil-li berty-group-turns-pm-crime-push.html

[johnlambert]

I cant wait for the chorus of " only those with something to hide will complain" well I've nothing to hide and I'll be right behind you on the 1st airplane out of the UK Noxy mate

[##Wardy##]

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear (or should I say "only those with something to hide will complain") Same thing I suppose.

Well noxy, dear sir, I agree with you that Blair is a waste of space with an incredibly ugly dog of a wife, but I really do not see the problem.

Criminals are only defined as such through convictions. With conviction rates for court cases running at about 18 percent, and arrest rates for crimes running at about 3 percent, there are a hell of a lot of bad people out there not in the system.

The police, and any decent standing member of the community, have a damned good idea who the felons are. With human rights an all time high and devices meant to detect crime being more the opposite (i.e it wasn't on CCTV, he must be innocent) the criminal is walking scot free.

I see your argument, I really do but if this becomes law, I am certain the folks involved are already well known to the police and local authorities.

Also, and this next statement make be mocked, there is nothing wrong with the professional hunch. I have interrogated Irish nationalist, arab insurgents and various militia on the basis of professional hunches, some of which were my own. All of them proved positive in the defence of this country.

Further, the fraud side of things and the sharing of information. . More money is lost in the UK from the by the tax fraudulent rich than by the dole peasants, the immigrants and the wasters put together.

I am not a wealthy man noxy, but on paper have a good few mil in property etc. I really do not have any problem with the authorities looking in to my finances. I know I am well above board. When I deposited 80k in a very old account once I had a knock on the door from Special Branch. We drank coffee and it was fine. This was post 9/11 and post the Money Laundering Act. I understand the system.

I shall happily leave the

[Lonnie]

Absolutely disgusting, but in truth, you could see the direction this goverment was heading in some years ago, so it doesn't surprise me one bit.

[jno]

disgusting; but I don't think it's party-political. Has David Cameron given any cast-iron pledges to abolish it if it's introduced?

[Theland]

I think that law abiding citizens should be alarmed at this proposal, as it leads inevitably to a miscarriage of justice.

Yes, there are those criminals who are "known" to be behind the crimes, and they mock the law as they know they are untouchable, never close enough to the crimes to be linked to them.

Instead of requiring proof of their crimes, "beyond reasonable doubt," the government is proposing something like the civil courts, "balance of probability," so the threshold of proof is lower, something like Wardys' "hunches," that I imagine are based on more circumstantial evidence than coincidence would permit.

But it is blatantly obvious that our politicians are desperate in the face of repeated failure to tackle crime, so what could we suggest as a viable and effective alternative to their proposals?

[##Wardy##]

The more I think about it, the more I actually couldn't care less.

This is a country who, whther like it or not, are at war with 2 middle eastern countries. Yet still we tolerate imans of hate.

We are a country whichs holds life imprisonment for rape, yet kiddy fiddlers are let out on probabtion.

We are a country whose police are more interested in nabbing seatbelt dodgers than burglars or robbers.

We are a country who has ASBO's yet 70 percent of the peasants with them flaunt the restrictions with little or no further punishment.

We are a country who invite all the worlds peasants on to our shores yet there is homelessness and real poverty amongst our own tribe.

With this pathetic government, I really don'tthink much will happen to the so called "gangsters" do you?

[noxlumos]

Not the point though suerly wardy, if you let your freedoms go without kicking up a fuss then when you have none left you can't really moan that you are no longer free. I think this is tremendously important. This Govt has legislated us all to death as it is, people really do need to call a halt to this before we are living in the kind of state that we once used to pity people for residing in. Surely there is a time when all men of good conscience should say "enough", because other wise we end up with what happened in Germany during the 30's, people ignoring the losses of freedoms because it applied to other groups, until one day when it DID affect them, there was no-one there to help them.