ChatterBank6 mins ago
UK/US Bottom 2 for kids??
Now accuse me of being an old cynic but is not the fact that the UK and US are bottom in the recent Unicef report on Children's well being a sure sign that a bunch of lefty social workers have compiled this report? Surprise surprise the top 3 are those much admired panthions of liberal thinking, namely Holland, Sweden and Denmark. Do the placings of nations at the extremes of this list indicate a political agenda by the authors?
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The report is freely available on the Unicef website and contains methodological notes on each dimension considered and sources.
I don't suppose there's any chance that you could actually read a little bit of it before leaping into a wild conjecture based on er... nothing, is there? I thought you were supposed to be anti-conspiracy theory?
I don't suppose there's any chance that you could actually read a little bit of it before leaping into a wild conjecture based on er... nothing, is there? I thought you were supposed to be anti-conspiracy theory?
Erm, I rather think that positing a political agenda in the placing of various country's performance in a statistical exercise in which the methodology is freely available and thus simply proved or disproved, but without bothering to hold your conjecture up against those facts rather suggests otherwise... ;-)
So you immediately assume that any evidence that places Holland Sweden and Denmark above the UK and the US must by definition be biased and incorrect?
Why is that then?
Because it's patently obvious that any socialist leaning system must be inferior?
This is circular logic of the most impressive level! Normally only seen in the religous threads
Why is that then?
Because it's patently obvious that any socialist leaning system must be inferior?
This is circular logic of the most impressive level! Normally only seen in the religous threads
Saw this report on BBC Breakfast this morning, and to be honest I'm not so surprised. We gave up the idea of happiness and well-being a long time ago in favour of success and material wealth.
Children are told from the earliest of ages that they desperately need to consume products in order to be a succesful, popular, happy person. They're continually told that they aren't rich, attractive or succesful enough, and this affluenza just makes people miserable. The family unit has broken down, because the adults have had it drilled into them that they need to work harder and harder in order to succeed. Nothing will change, unless there was a major, nationwide, attitude overhaul.
Children are told from the earliest of ages that they desperately need to consume products in order to be a succesful, popular, happy person. They're continually told that they aren't rich, attractive or succesful enough, and this affluenza just makes people miserable. The family unit has broken down, because the adults have had it drilled into them that they need to work harder and harder in order to succeed. Nothing will change, unless there was a major, nationwide, attitude overhaul.
Actually on a more serious note - I think the most surprising resut is the proportion of kids who found their friends kind and helpful.
40% in the UK does not surprise me at all, but 80% in Switzerland is a bit of a shock.
I'd always rather assumed that kids were naturally rather horrible to each other - Lord of the flies and all that.
Maybe I was wrong! perhaps it's something to do with the way we bring them up
40% in the UK does not surprise me at all, but 80% in Switzerland is a bit of a shock.
I'd always rather assumed that kids were naturally rather horrible to each other - Lord of the flies and all that.
Maybe I was wrong! perhaps it's something to do with the way we bring them up
Been to Turkey and Egypt this year and the children in those (poor) countries do look considerably happier, and play out more and are not constantly 'guarded' by anxious parents.
I have friends whose children are virtual prisoners to them. They are not allowed to walk to school because it is 'dangerous' and thier childrens social lives are fitted in at the convenience of the parents. The kids go to school, get picked up by their parents, and spend all evening msn-ing each other.
No wonder the little blighters are depressed.
I have friends whose children are virtual prisoners to them. They are not allowed to walk to school because it is 'dangerous' and thier childrens social lives are fitted in at the convenience of the parents. The kids go to school, get picked up by their parents, and spend all evening msn-ing each other.
No wonder the little blighters are depressed.
There you go again Jake one of your famous leaps of logic!
"So you immediately assume that any evidence that places Holland Sweden and Denmark above the UK and the US must by definition be biased and incorrect? "
What I said was it's a bit suspicious having the 2 countries the lefties most hate at the bottom and the 3 they most love at the top. No doubt there are many things that said countries have a better statistic than us in but I'm not saying they are biased.
"Because it's patently obvious that any socialist leaning system must be inferior?"
Yes any socialst system is flawed as it requires human nature to altered before it can work.
I don't immediately see what you mean by "circular logic", however you are the master of leaps of logic!
"So you immediately assume that any evidence that places Holland Sweden and Denmark above the UK and the US must by definition be biased and incorrect? "
What I said was it's a bit suspicious having the 2 countries the lefties most hate at the bottom and the 3 they most love at the top. No doubt there are many things that said countries have a better statistic than us in but I'm not saying they are biased.
"Because it's patently obvious that any socialist leaning system must be inferior?"
Yes any socialst system is flawed as it requires human nature to altered before it can work.
I don't immediately see what you mean by "circular logic", however you are the master of leaps of logic!
Lies, damned lies and statistics, sure; agreed. Statistics can lie.
Well, in this case the methodology and the data tables are available in the back of the report, so tell us where the methodology is dodgy. I don't think you can, because I don't think your suspicion is based on anything more concrete that your personal political convictions, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Well, in this case the methodology and the data tables are available in the back of the report, so tell us where the methodology is dodgy. I don't think you can, because I don't think your suspicion is based on anything more concrete that your personal political convictions, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Scroll down here for the full list:
http://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/reports/150207-Unice f-report-15Feb07.pdf
http://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/reports/150207-Unice f-report-15Feb07.pdf
Look Waldo, I haven't analysed the data and it's source in detail but there are too many places where a label has been put on something indicating a particular conclusion that is a matter of opinion rather than a definitive statement of well being. The whole things just seemed too convenient to me. Eg "families eating a meal together" is just one of many subjective indicators used.
When the BBC interviewed an expert from Holland (the top spot) he emphasised the reason for it. Children who fail the exams are not classed as useless and unemployable like the UK. Their exam system is ability structured so that no child ever fails because he/she is good at something and this creates a contented society.
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