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your own actions
just reading stokeaces post regarding these parents meeting with the pope, i have stayed away from the posts about this little girl, cos no matter what your opinions are, someone will take offence, but .. watching the news last night and the last few weeks made me think that somehow its always easier to blame someone else when something goes wrong? The fella in Cyprus who rented out a jet-ski to 16 year old kids, and then the fatal accident that occurred where he collided with his girlfriend and killed her.....well how does THAT make it the jet-ski owners fault? ok he should have asked for ID BUT also they should NOT have rented the jet-skis, and the girl murdered by the japanese student.... well millions of youngsters go travelling the world and are OK, why was she in his apartment with him alone?? bit risky to say the least, now her parents are blaming his father, yes i know these are terrible tradgedies and should not happen BUT they do and sometimes you have to take responsibility for your own actions, these are my opinions and i am entitled to them so dont bother having a go cos i'll only have a go back, i am one of the minority i expect -that whilst hoping that this little girl gets found safe! that her parents were to blame for what has occurred, and no-one else, YES we should be able to leave our children unattended but the fact is we cant, and IF WE CHOOSE TO, then we have to suffer the consequences, blaming the Portugese police for being too slow is not the way to go, i am not being heartless here, we have had many holidays with little miss CP, and taken it in turns to go off and eat rather than leave her, not great fun i know but having kids is the decision you make! in the paper last week centre pages and photos of 30 kiddies missing for months and not a single mention? why is this one so different?
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Sorry, are you saying the Maddy's parents should be blamed or shouldn't be blamed?
Personally, I find the whole blame thing a bit over-the-top. There's something in the British psyche that reacts to every and any piece of bad news by demanding that someone is done in for it. It gives us all a bit of self-righteous, Old Testament satisfaction, seeing someone's head roll.
Personally, I find the whole blame thing a bit over-the-top. There's something in the British psyche that reacts to every and any piece of bad news by demanding that someone is done in for it. It gives us all a bit of self-righteous, Old Testament satisfaction, seeing someone's head roll.
Regarding your subtext of "Your own actions", may I link it to todays news about a little scamp who has fallen through a school skylight and smashed his skull.
I, for one, find this rather amusing. Call me heartless but if a person is climbing on a roof, clearly up to no good, then more fool them.
My point is, I imagine the school will now spend a fortune on changing all the skylights just to make them burglar friendly!!!!!
Bloody pathetic.
I, for one, find this rather amusing. Call me heartless but if a person is climbing on a roof, clearly up to no good, then more fool them.
My point is, I imagine the school will now spend a fortune on changing all the skylights just to make them burglar friendly!!!!!
Bloody pathetic.
Njok at the risk of alienating myself from the rest of the site i am saying at the end of the day it IS the parents fault, if you dont take unnecessary risks the horrific outcome is minimal! dont wanna go over old ground regarding not paying for the babysitting service etc etc but the facts are plain to see, and i can NEVER recall the Pope getting involved with anything rmotely like this EVER?
JTL I can see where your coming from ther was a lad in the paper (a good boy according to his parents!) who was climbing on top of an train(as you do) and electrocuted himself on an overhead cable, but his parents are up in arms cos of the lack of WARNING signs on show!!!! what about the warning signs in his head??? oh and he was 17 just for the record - you couldnt make it up!
JTL I can see where your coming from ther was a lad in the paper (a good boy according to his parents!) who was climbing on top of an train(as you do) and electrocuted himself on an overhead cable, but his parents are up in arms cos of the lack of WARNING signs on show!!!! what about the warning signs in his head??? oh and he was 17 just for the record - you couldnt make it up!
Think the whole thing has been done to death but bottom line in the parents WILFULLY NEGLECTED their children and for that there is no defence whatsover.
Meeting the pope, european tour, phone calls from Gordon Brown - it will be souvenir tshirts next.
An audience with social services would be more appropriate.
Meeting the pope, european tour, phone calls from Gordon Brown - it will be souvenir tshirts next.
An audience with social services would be more appropriate.
i agree with you curlyperm and i said the same in a post last week, lots of children go missing so why should this one be different, i truly hope that she is found safe and well and very soon, NOBODY but the parents are to blame for her going missing,they should'nt have left her in the room alone while they went and fed themselves,all manner of things could have happened.
The failure to take responsibility for your own actions is a definite feature of modern life. Everything is society/the government/my parents/racism/immigrants/teachers/the
person whose house I was breaking into's fault. Anything and anyone but your own stupid self.
"It's the cigarette manufacturer's/Mcdonalds fault that I've got cancer/a big fat @rse - they forced me to stuff cigarettes/hamburgers in my gob for 20 years. I'm got every right to sue them." etc etc.
Regarding the Madeleine case, I can't really believe you're all saying it was the parent's fault - what about the abductor(s). Did they not have something to do with it? Aren't they 100% responsible for creating that whole situation?
person whose house I was breaking into's fault. Anything and anyone but your own stupid self.
"It's the cigarette manufacturer's/Mcdonalds fault that I've got cancer/a big fat @rse - they forced me to stuff cigarettes/hamburgers in my gob for 20 years. I'm got every right to sue them." etc etc.
Regarding the Madeleine case, I can't really believe you're all saying it was the parent's fault - what about the abductor(s). Did they not have something to do with it? Aren't they 100% responsible for creating that whole situation?
Blame? What did that ever solve?
These parent are good people. They still "believe" despite all that has happened in an evil world.
They have explained before that the very reason they didnt have a child minder is that they didnt wish to leave them with strangers. Strange logic maybe but perfectly understandable.
Tourists coming home from Spain once upon a time used to being a donkey as souvenir. Next time just bring a Portuguest police officer. They seem to be the same thing. A very unimpressive police force, comared with the UK.
Keep Madeleine in all your thoughts; enough positive energy out there in the world and the kidnapper(s) will make a key mistake.
These parent are good people. They still "believe" despite all that has happened in an evil world.
They have explained before that the very reason they didnt have a child minder is that they didnt wish to leave them with strangers. Strange logic maybe but perfectly understandable.
Tourists coming home from Spain once upon a time used to being a donkey as souvenir. Next time just bring a Portuguest police officer. They seem to be the same thing. A very unimpressive police force, comared with the UK.
Keep Madeleine in all your thoughts; enough positive energy out there in the world and the kidnapper(s) will make a key mistake.
Starmack - Im sure the parents are "good people" but add a very big IRRESPONSIBLE in front of it.
Positive energy? What is that going to do? The chances of her ever been found are practically zero.
Didn't want to leave the kids with child minders?? Well just go out early and take the kids with you or eat in the room end of story.
So if I went down the pub in the UK for an hour, left my kids unattended and the front door open and one of the disappeared what would your reaction be? Im intrigued to know.
Positive energy? What is that going to do? The chances of her ever been found are practically zero.
Didn't want to leave the kids with child minders?? Well just go out early and take the kids with you or eat in the room end of story.
So if I went down the pub in the UK for an hour, left my kids unattended and the front door open and one of the disappeared what would your reaction be? Im intrigued to know.
starmack, i have to disagree about your comparison of the portugese police to a stuffed toy? how unfair is that? they probably are stumped as to why 2 British holiday makers would leave 3 under 3 year olds on there own in the first place?????? clearly the Brish police force are used to this happenning in this country (everyday occurance) but things like this are very uncommon in most european countries, maybe they like the company of their children round the dinner table? where a lot of brits see them as a hindrence to their own fun? Nobody said blame solved anything but if the apartment was EMPTY and LOCKED .....nothing to kidnap - end of story? not having a go like i said everyone entitled to their own opinion, and not everyone will agree with me i am sure, it just seems to me from the people i have spoken to that the gereal concensus is........the longer it drags on the less sympathy is being shown?
Not a favourable view of the situation CP, but an accurate one. The question of whether social services should have become involved was brought up on Question Time last week and no-one answered it. I think the thinking behind it is that the McCanns are going through hell enough at the moment without having the blame laid at their doorstep. Hopefully they will become answerable once she is found. Or just put in a room with a bunch of proper parents!
the trouble is, if you be the bigger person & accept responsibilty, you become the scapegoat & get blamed for everything, & if you genuinely feel someone else is to blame, you are accused of shifting the blame!
regards the jetski, they were kids & therefore you can't expect them to behave like adults & understand that they can't just do what they like, the owner knows the dangers of jetskis &should have checked for ID, & although he did not actually kill the girl, he should be held accountable for his lack of care & attention.
admittedly the adults who get themselves into dangerous situations, like the girl in the hongkong room should have more sense, & she was undoubtedly very naive to go there, but you can't really blame her for thinking she can go about her life without getting murdered - the person to blame here is the killer - not the killers father, thats ridiculous.
i think blaming others is instinctive and automatic - i've witnessed people who say ''wasn't me'' when you have just watched them do it, & they know you saw it, but their instinct is denial - until after a short while, common sense kicks in & they realise they cannot just deny it.
I remember sitting by a man with a ciggy held low & i felt my leg get hot - he was burning a hole in my skirt - he denied it!! for ages! - and the reason? he likely thought i'd demand he buy me a new skirt.
its sad that people are so afraid of paying or being sued, they deny everything.
also some people who know theyre to blame, just simply cannot live with the guilt &if theres someone else to pin it on theyll take that little bit of solace, even though deep down they know the truth.
i think theres also a self esteem issue -by lashing out at someone who's done something bad & very stupid, it makes people feel superior & smug & boosts their ego to know that theyre not that stupid -its stepping on someones head in
regards the jetski, they were kids & therefore you can't expect them to behave like adults & understand that they can't just do what they like, the owner knows the dangers of jetskis &should have checked for ID, & although he did not actually kill the girl, he should be held accountable for his lack of care & attention.
admittedly the adults who get themselves into dangerous situations, like the girl in the hongkong room should have more sense, & she was undoubtedly very naive to go there, but you can't really blame her for thinking she can go about her life without getting murdered - the person to blame here is the killer - not the killers father, thats ridiculous.
i think blaming others is instinctive and automatic - i've witnessed people who say ''wasn't me'' when you have just watched them do it, & they know you saw it, but their instinct is denial - until after a short while, common sense kicks in & they realise they cannot just deny it.
I remember sitting by a man with a ciggy held low & i felt my leg get hot - he was burning a hole in my skirt - he denied it!! for ages! - and the reason? he likely thought i'd demand he buy me a new skirt.
its sad that people are so afraid of paying or being sued, they deny everything.
also some people who know theyre to blame, just simply cannot live with the guilt &if theres someone else to pin it on theyll take that little bit of solace, even though deep down they know the truth.
i think theres also a self esteem issue -by lashing out at someone who's done something bad & very stupid, it makes people feel superior & smug & boosts their ego to know that theyre not that stupid -its stepping on someones head in
curlyperm
Whilst I agree with the thrust of your post/question, I think we should be aware of the difference between 'blame' and 'responsibility'.
Casting around for blame is pretty pointless and I think that people do it to alieviate feelings of guilt that we sometimes feel.
What parents of this girl need to do (and according to reports I've read they've already done this) is take responsibility for what's happened.
Weirdly though, it sems (and this is only going on what I've read) that they are taking responsibility whilst simultaneously sharing out the blame.
Odd.
Whilst I agree with the thrust of your post/question, I think we should be aware of the difference between 'blame' and 'responsibility'.
Casting around for blame is pretty pointless and I think that people do it to alieviate feelings of guilt that we sometimes feel.
What parents of this girl need to do (and according to reports I've read they've already done this) is take responsibility for what's happened.
Weirdly though, it sems (and this is only going on what I've read) that they are taking responsibility whilst simultaneously sharing out the blame.
Odd.
thanks x i too know people who will deny things till they are blue in the face........so annoying.
in this McCann case i initally thought 'Oh well these two are obviously gonna split up cos she'll blame him and he'll blame her etc or one of them will turn to drink' a bit like poor Sarah Paynes parents, but seems like they are sticking together, dont know whether i'd be big enough to do that! surely youd be going over and over the last words and who made the final decision to say 'oh lets just go---- they'll be fine'
One more question, in relation to what Obonio put about putting them in a room with 'proper parents'....does anyone have any thoughts on what the public will think if (just say) she is found alive and well? obviously massive releif, but a hint of.........'Right shes back and shes Ok so - think yourselves lucky , get out of the headlines, DONT sell your story and let the rest of us get back to our own lives?....................OR something else? Ta
in this McCann case i initally thought 'Oh well these two are obviously gonna split up cos she'll blame him and he'll blame her etc or one of them will turn to drink' a bit like poor Sarah Paynes parents, but seems like they are sticking together, dont know whether i'd be big enough to do that! surely youd be going over and over the last words and who made the final decision to say 'oh lets just go---- they'll be fine'
One more question, in relation to what Obonio put about putting them in a room with 'proper parents'....does anyone have any thoughts on what the public will think if (just say) she is found alive and well? obviously massive releif, but a hint of.........'Right shes back and shes Ok so - think yourselves lucky , get out of the headlines, DONT sell your story and let the rest of us get back to our own lives?....................OR something else? Ta
a sad sad state of affairs, if this child was abducted the person or persons who did it were evil, if the child had not been left unattended it would never have happened, i have no idea why this case has received so much publicity, blame the police as much as you like but 3 very young children were left unattended,
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