NHS what should it be for?

[Loosehead]

With the Virgin repair question in the news and below, I was wondering should the NHS exclude things that are not necessary generally? (or charge as if private)
eg
1 - Fertility treament
2 - Tattoo removal
3 - Sex changes
4 - Cosmetic surgery for vanity purposes
5 - hymen repair, of course!
anything else?

[China Doll]

The NHS can and does charge for the first four of those. Not all of those procedures are done for free. We do however fix up the comestic botch jobs done privately for free. Usually when they arrive in A&E.

I don't know enough about the fifth owing to it being so rare I've never, ever come accross it in this hospital.

[jake-the-peg]

The NHS has apparently done 24 since the begining of 2006 throughout the entire country China so it's not surprising you've not heard of it being done where you are.

Of course that little nugget of information is somewhat buried at the bottom of the stories in the papers - if it's there at all

[chompu]

What difference does it make whether it's 24 or 24000, none of them should be done.

[Loosehead]

can we concentrate on the more general point please, what about 1-4 should they be available free?

[China Doll]

Sex changes quite possibly as they're also related to the mental state of a patient usually.

I don't think tattoo removal should. As to fertility treatment, I'm not decided.

[Oneeyedvic]

1) In principle No, this should not be financed on NHS
2) Same - people should think before they act.
3) Although I know very little on this subject, I would think that yes, it should be available as I understand that some people are born with the wrong type of chromosomes.
4) Depends on what you mean by vanity (beauty is in the eye of the beholder / beerholder) and also the long term affects. Although some one may not need (in my opinion) cosmetic surgery, it may lead to things like depression. I assume it would cost a lot more to 'cure' someone of depression rather than a cosmetic surgery. (I Think I am saying depends on this one).
5) I know absolutely nothing about this procedure so couldn't comment

[Pippa68]

I am with CD in that I agree to sex changes being paid for on the NHS and I am undecided on the fertility treatment issue.

Part of me says that fertility shouldn't be a human right..although I guess as a person who found it easy to conceive I might feel differently otherwise.

Tattoo removal and cosmetic surgery for vanity definately should be paid for by the patient..although of course some cases could also be mental health issues is argued correctly!

What a dilemma...

[Pippa68]

*if* argued correctly

[China Doll]

Isn't it just Pip?

Fortunately (or unfortunately depending how you look at it) that's why most people have to jump through hoops to get the first four of those treatments for free on the NHS.

[Sweep2k]

For what it's worth I'd argue that fertility treatment should be available. I understand that people don't regard giving birth as a human right, but how is the ability to procreate any less of a basic right than the abiity to see or the ability to walk. If anything it's more so, in my view.

Tattoo removal is no longer available on the NHS, apart from in very rare circumstances where the doctor feels that psychological damage may result if it isn't removed.

[alijangra]

Why not fertility treatment? It is a medical condition like any other. The others I think are a luxury and should be paid for.

[daffy654]

I had tattoo removal on the NHS back in 1986 when I was 17,it was done as a minor surgical procedure by my GP.I didn't require theatre time,surgeon,hospital bed or anything like that so I suppose the cost was kept to a bare minimum.At the time I didn't think about the cost to the NHS,I just wanted the hideous home made tattoos gone. I am having botox(for pain relief) and a septorhinoplasty very soon all paid for by the NHS but it is not for cosmetic reasons.
I don't think fertility treatment should be paid for by the NHS unless it is just fertility drugs and I think the rest should be privately paid for.

[China Doll]

I don't think fertility treatment should be given for free because I don't believe that the ability to conceive and carry a child is an entitlement or a baisc human right. You won't die or fall ill if you can't have children.

However I'm aware that there are a lot of different stances on this and it is not an opinion that is set in stone, I'd be willing to listen to the arguements why the NHS should pay for it.

[smudge]

1. Yes - unless they could afford private
2. No - Don't get a tattoo done in the first place
3. Yes - for mental well being
4. No - only for disfigurement & well being
5. No - as I explained on my virginity repair thread

Thanks chompu. I mentioned the 24 in my thread, but it could well be more.....;o}

[Loosehead]

well thanks for your thoughts, my own: (there are always exceptions these are just general so please pedants do not dig up your what if? scenarios).
1 - No, there is no shortage of people, adopt!
2 - No why should the public pay for stupidity?
Daffy how did you get the tatoos then? I mean did you think it was a good idea at the time?
3 - No I just don't buy all this "in the wrong body" cobblers, if you want it you pay.
4. - No for all the usual enhancement stuff. Accident/desease reconstruction yes. Also there is a case for some of the breast reduction surgery, when clearly the natural size is just too uncomfortable and can cause other problems if not corrected. If you're ugly, sorry live with it or pay up, cleft palette etc yes.
5 - totally rediculous, as others have said, the hymen can be broken very easily, means nothing.

[alijangra]

The infertility will be caused by a failure of a particular part of the body, eg blocked fallopian tubes, ovaries that produce little or no eggs, testes that produce no sperm so from that point of view you are correcting organs that are not functioning correctly. The infertility may also have been caused by a previous illness, and as such should be treated just the same as the illness.

[daffy654]

I was brought up in council childrens homes loosehead and a lot of the other older kids had these tattoos done(sewing needle and indian ink),the first one I had done was actually me being held down by 3 bigger kids and they tattooed me(I was 12 years old),the second one was to cover that one up...the 3rd and 4th seemed like a good idea at the time,yes it was stupid and yes I shouldn't have done it but I can hardly change the past now,it was 27 years ago afterall.I had them removed at age 17 because it was preventing me getting a job so my GP agreed to do them for me,I am left with hideous scarring now but I don't complain as it was all self inflicted and i'm just glad not to have the tattoos.

[China Doll]

Ok... But as I understand fertility treatment it does not correct the sperm being produced or start eggs being generated so they can be concieved naturally for the future.

To my understanding, (female fertility issues this one), drugs have to be injected in order to stimulate the production of eggs which are harvested and the sperm added and then the fertilised embryos are placed back in the woman and it's hoped that one actually becomes a baby? (I know that's not exactly a scientific interpretation & please feel free to correct any part of that that's wrong).

So that being the case then it's not like curing or treating an illness to my way of thinking and that being the case then I don't see why the NHS should fund it.

[smudge]

I can understand China's stance on fertility treatment & thinking about it, people could argue that if they can't afford to have treatment, p'raps they shouldn't go on to have children, as they also cost money.....

However, I love children & couldn't imagine life without them.

[Loosehead]

Fair enough daffy, I was brought up on a council estate myself not a home like you but the kids did all that indian ink stuff, I managed to avoid it myself.