Fathers 4 Justice in The AnswerBank: News

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And yes i shall answer my own question to give you my opinion... I think the Fathers for Justice campaigns are great, they cause disruption, get maximum poress coverage and expose the authorities as to just how lax they are - all without hurting anyone. Brilliant.

derbyram

On the whole I think the Fathers 4 Justice have a valid complaint and I can see why they have chosen the methods they have to publicise their campaign. I think it may have backfired on them slightly - in so much as the press coverage is overwhelmingly about the security issue rather than their cause. However, I would not liked to have been the policeman/soldier who had to make a split decision on whether or not the person in the batman suit constituted a threat worthy of opening fire.

WaldoMcFroog

I agree with the other respondents thus far. Although there is some legitimate concern about their methods and whether they overshadow their message, the net result has been an increase of publicity for their cause where before it was substantially unknown.

andytreble99

right way from the respect of how effective it is...yes because you are talking about it, its on the front of every paper & had about 10 hrs almost non-stop coverage on all news channels last night. i agree that the security issue is the main point of the coverage but the fact is it is directly or indirectly being talked about & that sticks in the mind(for example just think how much Coke/Nike etc pay to get their product in a film for a fraction of a second- its not what everyone is concentrating on but its there subconcieusly nevertheless). I think its a watershed moment though because they can't uisethe same tactic in such a security sensitive location without the very high risk of being shot. as everyone points out, if there are 2 tiers of security - one for comedy figures & one for shady terrorists- it doesn't take a genius to work out the best way to get past security does it?!

andy hughes

I would guess that the organisation is using these publicity methods because it has tried all other avenues, and found them unsuccessful, wheras the publicity angle is paying off in spades. The police are franticaly trying to sound gung ho by advising that "had the intruder been a terrorist, he would have been shot." So that's OK then - using the current perameters for judging 'terrorists', it's a good job he didn't dress up as Lawrence Of Arabia!

Ralph

This was absolutely the right thing for them to do. If you don't attempt to induce maximum disruption and media coverage for your cause, it will just be met with public apathy. If he had climbed onto his own roof, he might have made the local paper for comedy value and would be forgotten after the page was turned. F4J have a legit complaint/ cause and need to force it into the public's face otherwise they'll get nothing. Good on them!

stoo_pid

Difficult one - I would certainly feel aggrieved & possibly just as desperate if I had been treated the way of lot of these fathers have. But I'm not yet convinced that this is the best way of going about it. Yes, these stunts can sometimes generate much-needed publicity but if that publicity makes you out to be a pain in the @rse or a nutter is that such a good thing for your cause? This is not the only 'Superhero' demonstration that F4J have held but it's the first I've read about that didn't cause major disruption & inconvenience to innocent bystanders. I think this quote from Ken Livingstone after one protest illustrates the problems of this sort of protest: "Mr Chick is amply demonstrating [why] women do not feel they always want their partners to have access to their children. He is a man who is putting his own life at risk, police officers at risk and other Londoners who may be passing along the road at risk... and is not necessarily the role model one wants for one's children as they grow up..." The guy may have got his point across but at the expense of any realistic chance of securing access to his daughter while providing his ex- with plenty of ammunition. I wonder how his little girl feels about that..? The way I see it, any grounds that had been gained by other less 'spiky' organisations (See links below) was lost the minute the first Dad pulled on his tights http://www.fnf.org.uk/ http://www.spig.clara.net/ http://www.parentalequality.ie/new/index.php

RevShirls

I agree that this is a diificult one. I can understand the despair of those campaigning - and several years ago (before major threats of terrorism) I would have supported their right to demonstrate in this way. Nowadays, I have mixed feelings. the Fathers4justice campaigners are so well-known now that all terrorists would have to do it to dress up as batman with a Fathers4justice sign. People would probably shout and cheer them on... The consequences don't bear thinking about.

Oneeyedvic

Re Stoo_pid's answer. While there are some other organisations which are very worthy, I bet yo ua lot of money that no one here has been on their site before or even heard of them. Fathers for justice has brought people together talking about it in a way that all the organisations you have mentioned have failed to do. I have no children and no real motive in this argument, however I do feel for these people. Unfortunately, we do not live in a real democracy, and even if he stood for parliament and became a MP he still would not be able to do anything about it. Unfortunately, in this country to get notice you have to do something dangerous to get the coverage. Maybe their long term goal is to have a splinter group which will go into politics (rather like Sinn Fein and the IRA). Or maybe I am just paranoid and talking out of my bottom.

RevShirls

Wannabet, Oneeyedvic. I've visited their website a number of times. I did a search for their website the first time I heard them mentioned because I wanted to know more about them. The site is well presented and very informative.

Oneeyedvic

Sorry, my point (very badly made) was that yes, f4j does work and people go on to their website. What doesn't work is the standard organisations who have been campaigning for years. My point is I doubt anyone has been on these websites as mentioned by stoo_pid http://www.fnf.org.uk/ http://www.spig.clara.net/ http://www.parentalequality.ie/new/index.php

bernardo

Dangerous Terrorist. He should have been shot. It was a gross insult to the Queen, and he has destroyed any sympathy which I ever had for his cause.

stoo_pid

I think Oneeyedvic does have a point - very few 'neutral' people are likely to have even heard of the other organisations, let alone visit their websites. However, it's not neutral people that get things changed. Just because you've heard of F4J & even if you agree very strongly with their issues it's still pretty unlikely you would (or more importantly, *could*) ever do anything about it. IMO, aside from drumming up moral & (if you're lucky) financial support this type of publicity can achieve nothing except to further tarnish the viewpoint of those that hold influential positions. Please don't get me wrong - I get quite angry when I think about the legal issues, both from the fathers' & the childrens' perspective. But I also get frustrated to think of other groups working hard at various political & legal levels to get things changed whose work risks being undermined by the negative publicity generated by these stunts. Look at it this way - does anyone here really believe *any* fathers are ever going to get a better deal in seeing their children because a group of men keep climbing structures while dressed up as cartoon characters?

buchanan

I am concerned that they are advertising the security weaknesses in our iconic buildings - perhaps to people who may want to exploit those weaknesses in a violent way. Aren't there any railings they could chain themselves to?

Oneeyedvic

Well stoo_pid, I am afraid we must agree to disagree on this one. I believe that the law is changed only when the majority of poeple feel strongly about something (as the usual political parties start making an issue about it). Most people do not feel strongly on this subject and will have done no research on it. However, now with the f4j action, most people have discussed it and now have an opinion (one way or the other). At least people now have an opinion and allbeit it may be clouded, I doubt anyone could say that f4j have not got a point. It really is down to the way they went about doing it. Personally, i firmly beleive that this country is very corrupt and I am very cynical about pretty much most government departments. I think that Tony Blair is a very dangerous man, led us into an unjust war etc. What strange laws we have in this country when we can allow an animal to die in peace but we would not allow a person the same dignity. I could go on and on but I digress. What can I do about it though. I could stand as a local councillor and try to change things on a local level. I could try standing as an independent MP. Again, even if elected one person cannot change anything. So the only option is to get around 350 people in different parts of the country to join me. Lets face it I don't know 350 people in different parts of the country. I think what I am trying to say (very badly) is that the only real way of trying to change a law is by putting your life on the line and going to extremes.

Oneeyedvic

Well stoo_pid, I am afraid we must agree to disagree on this one. I believe that the law is changed only when the majority of poeple feel strongly about something (as the usual political parties start making an issue about it). Most people do not feel strongly on this subject and will have done no research on it. However, now with the f4j action, most people have discussed it and now have an opinion (one way or the other). At least people now have an opinion and allbeit it may be clouded, I doubt anyone could say that f4j have not got a point. It really is down to the way they went about doing it. Personally, i firmly beleive that this country is very corrupt and I am very cynical about pretty much most government departments. I think that Tony Blair is a very dangerous man, led us into an unjust war etc. What strange laws we have in this country when we can allow an animal to die in peace but we would not allow a person the same dignity. I could go on and on but I digress. What can I do about it though. I could stand as a local councillor and try to change things on a local level. I could try standing as an independent MP. Again, even if elected one person cannot change anything. So the only option is to get around 350 people in different parts of the country to join me. Lets face it I don't know 350 people in different parts of the country. I think what I am trying to say (very badly) is that the only real way of trying to change a law is by putting your life on the line and going to extremes.

Philtaz

You've got to admire them for going about their non-violent protest in a rather high profile manner and being very successful at it! If nothing else they have shown the rather glaring breaches that can be made in the security of some of Britain's most secure(coughs!) buildings and establishments.

jenstar

Bad choice of superhero though - surely everyone knows Batman is gay?!

Drewhound

I can see the arguments why they shouldn't have done it, the security aspects, but surely they have raised awareness of those security defects which can't be a bad thing? I'm totally behind their campaign and if it's the only way to get their plight known then so be it, our press lives for sensationalism and won't cover the story otherwise

becks

Question Author

Some great answers and nice to see people having a reasoned debate about something marginally interesting and intelligent! 3 stars to all, can't be bothered to do them all individually!

Fathers 4 Justice

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