Expats

[LoftyLottie]

There is so much on here from people grumbling about immigrants and saying they are moving out of the UK - however do they consider that they might cause the same problems in other countries and might not actually be welcome?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081114/tuk-expat s-in-spain-may-face-anger-6323e80.html

[youngmafbog]

If you move out and expect to be supported yes, but many expats in Spain have been there fro years and have contributed heavily to the country via tax etc. They were also welcomed with open arms by the Spanish so not exactly comparable with the Eastern Euopean situation here. In addition ,since UK is a net contributer and Spain only takes it could be said the British are paying for being there.

However this has a very interesting other side, is it finally the breakup of the EU ?. Seems it is going to be each for his own when the chips are down. Can't wait personally think of all the billions we will save and wont it be a good crack watching all those with their snout in the trough finally getting their cumuppence.

[anotheoldgit]

At least they are only complaining about us taking their jobs.

Now what can we complain about our immigrants doing?

[justmetoo]

I am an expat living in Spain, I pay Spanish tax, I speak Spanish, I put into this country, I dont take anything from it....

[jno]

er, no, it's not finally the breakup of the EU. Sorry.

[Ethel]

It makes me laugh. I had a villa in Spain and know of lot of expats - all who complain about the corruption, red tape, the delays in getting anything done...

Very few speak Spanish, or have Spanish friends. Most live in expat communities with other Brits, Dutch, Belgian and Germans.

We know and understand the problems of the UK. We know how the system works, mostly, and are aware of current affairs. We know the benefits we can claim and when, how income tax, rates and everything else we have to pay.

When we go abroad on holidays we don't take any notice of the news; we don't see the drug addicts, the drunks, the ilegal immigrants (Spain has lots), the problems of that country and we think everything is perfect.

The reality is very different for many people. Older people retire to Spain for the weather and lower cost of living. Fine until they start suffering ill health. Excellent health care whilst in hospital -none of the support we can get i the UK to enable us to live independent lives in our own homes.
Living there is totally different.

I know a lot of Spaniards who are frustrated by the massive building developments for foreigners that change the landscape and their way of life; the quashing of their culture and the difficulties their own youngsters face in buying their first home. They worry about the very bad influence they see from British holiday makers and the effects it has on their children and young adults.

Don't forget it's not all that long since the fall of the Franco regime and there are still problems with Eta and Basque terrorists.

Every country has problems - the most of us simply aren't interested or aren't aware of them.

[LoftyLottie]

No AOG they are not just complaining about us taking their jobs. Elderly people retiring over to Spain, etc. are using up a lot of their resources. A lot of people going to Spain are not benefiting.

Good posting Ethel.

[LoftyLottie]

Sorry I meant "Not benefiting Spain at all"

[LoftyLottie]

I appreciate that many expats do put a lot into their chosen countries. I was thinking more of people who state on here very often that they are fed up with the UK and are going to move out as soon as possible. Do they ever consider whether they will be accepted with open arms or whether they have anything to offer their chosen country?

A lot of us are always complaing about immigrants to the UK - but would probably be shocked to hear that we are not always welcome in the other countries. I think Brits are quite arrogant in this respect.

[Ethel]

Some of my expat friends are spitting at the amount of money the Spanish government is paying illegal immigrants to go home:

"Friday's law will give almost 300,000 unemployed immigrants the option to be paid two years of benefit if they leave the country. An initial 40 per cent would be paid as a lump sum before they leave and the rest gradually once they return home".

This is to the 700,000 illegal immigrants that were granted amnesty in 2004 - not the EU immigrants, mainly from Northern African countries.

[netibiza]

I have lived in Spain for 37yrs, always been legal, always paid National insurance tax, and all bills they ask for, I speak Spanish but also have to speak local Catalan which is difficult, my daughter was born here, and there are not that many Brits living in my area, although I mostly avoid the ones that do,. My husband is autonimo (self employed) and has a good name unlike most of the bits. There is no dole or monetary help for us, nor would I want there to be, although lots of newcomers from Eastern Europe do seem to get help. I would not trust the local Spanish one iota as knowing them well, they are money-grabbing and would rob one blind if given the chanc3e. But the mainlanders seem to be a nicer people.

[LoftyLottie]

youngmafbog. Regarding your second paragraph - interestingly I have been wondering exactly the same as you, i.e. will we see a breakdown of the EU as we struggle to protect our own countries during bad times.

jno, I would be interested to hear your further views on why this isn't likely. :o)

[netibiza]

The Spanish get the paro (dole) if they have worked one year (I think it is) and then 6months every year, they cannot get it every year, but can alternate and get Family assistance 300� a month, also all legal foreigners who
work in the system. Should be introduced back in Britain. There is a free dental extraction clinic but any fillings or other work have to be paid for.

[LoftyLottie]

I think your situation is different Neti. You could almost be considered Spanish and probably didn't go rushing off to Spain to get away from the 'Dreadful' UK.

There are just so many people wanting to get out and expecting things to be totally different where they decide to go.

Things are not good in the UK, but they are not good elsewhere either, in fact they are probably far worse in many cases.

[netibiza]

Was just packing my suitcase to get the money then re-read the post, am not eligible. Mind you Spain has been paying illegal immigrants to leave for quite some time, not just now! And the Prime Minister paid everyone 400� when he was re-elected! Of course, I am not allowed to vote! not am I allowed to hold a position of authority ie meter maid!!

[keyplus90]

If these people could work that out then why did you have to waste your and mine time on this question.

[LoftyLottie]

Sorry don't underestand Keyplus.

[netibiza]

Ethel I have to take issue with your comment about nursing care, as here, at least in Ibiza, it is much better than in the UK. Hospitals are cleaner, and fisio (sp sp) is ace. Only two bedded wards with private bathroom and television (which can be a nuisance if one is ill!) but certainly much better care than in UK:

[jno]

Lottie, I believe the EU was set up after WW2 to prevent Europe from going to war again - particularly by tying in German industry and French agriculture - by ensuring that the countries were all so closely linked that it would be economic suicide to start wars against each other. This seems to have worked. I don't think the EU will ever become like the USA, since individual states retain a lot of autonomy and stick to their own languages. But I can't see any member state being able to withdraw and go it alone economically. Britain as a net contributor does pay plenty of money into the EU, but basically it's to buy peace, and it's a lot better than spending it on going to war with Germany (or whoever). Leaving would cost more money than people are really prepared to pay. If we didn't get the preferential trade brought by being an EU member, for instance, exporters would find life a lot more difficult.

Some people would like to leave the union but somehow retain the benefits of freer trade and travel - eating their cake and having it. It's not clear that the remaining members would offer any such deal:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/certainideasofe urope/2007/03/out_but_still_in_please.cfm

[LoftyLottie]

Thanks jno - you are more knowledgeable on these matters than I will ever be. However, I do think there will be rises in so called 'patriotism' in countries as more and more 'foreigners' come to work, live and retire out of the UK.

We are seeing it here and you can see on this section alone how some people are totally upset by it. Lots of "I can't wait to get out of the UK" etc. statements.

What I was trying to say is that we should see that we could cause the same reaction by flitting off to other countries - the ordinary man in the street might just not want us around. I think, as I said before that the Brits are quite arrogant and it wouldn't even dawn on some people that we might not be wanted. And I honestly don't think many of us could fit into other cultures easily either. We tend to think our ways are right, even out of our own country.

I am not explaining very well am I!!!!

[LoftyLottie]

I am still waiting for keyplus to explain his statement!