ChatterBank12 mins ago
Why aren't the Tories doing better
Assuming the country is 'going to hell in a handcart' (immigration issues, financial meltdowns, housing market woes etc etc), why aren't the Tories doing better?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/pol itics/conservative/3467100/Tory-poll-lead-over -Labour-narrows-to-5-per-cent.html
Is it due to people 'sticking to what they know in times of crisis' or a general mistrust of Cameron's team?
Why is their lead shrinking???
It makes no sense.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/pol itics/conservative/3467100/Tory-poll-lead-over -Labour-narrows-to-5-per-cent.html
Is it due to people 'sticking to what they know in times of crisis' or a general mistrust of Cameron's team?
Why is their lead shrinking???
It makes no sense.
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The Economy and how to handle the global recession is what people are worried about at the moment. Whether you agree with Brown's remedies or not, at least he is attempting to deal with the situation.
Cameron/Osborne's answer is something incomprehensible about delaying National Insurance contributions (?) and not much else. A worse, they haven't a clue what they are doing or at best, they are failing to communicate their solutions.
The voters notice this. While they blame Brown for a lot of what is wrong with the country, they do not think the Tories have a credible plan for steering us through the difficult times ahead.
Cameron/Osborne's answer is something incomprehensible about delaying National Insurance contributions (?) and not much else. A worse, they haven't a clue what they are doing or at best, they are failing to communicate their solutions.
The voters notice this. While they blame Brown for a lot of what is wrong with the country, they do not think the Tories have a credible plan for steering us through the difficult times ahead.
Gromit
Sounds fair.
Do Tory voters on this site feel strongly in favour of the current Tory leadership or strongly anti Brown?
Also, does anyone know the last date that an election has to be called? I believe it's June 2009, which might give the current government enough time to claw back a lead...
...and that would be fab!
Sounds fair.
Do Tory voters on this site feel strongly in favour of the current Tory leadership or strongly anti Brown?
Also, does anyone know the last date that an election has to be called? I believe it's June 2009, which might give the current government enough time to claw back a lead...
...and that would be fab!
I'm what you would call a floating voter. I liked Blair and voted for him, but originally I think it was anti tory sentiment as they had become too blase about being in power. When Brown sold off part of our gold reserves I thought he was an idiot and I've never changed my mind. His policies of borrowing to spend and reducing interest rates to zero are doomed to failure. But I don't hear any credible alternatives from the tories.
The Tories have played their cards mainly right since Cameron took over.
With so long until the next election, they were able to attack government policy and talk in general terms about what they'd do, while declining to give detailed policies of their own. That's the beauty of opposition - you don't really have to. It means that you have something to attack but nothing that can really get you into critical strife. It's a sure-fire boost in the polls.
It's the same with almost any electoral term. The Opposition gets a big mid-term bounce which withers (to at least some degree) when election time approaches because the electorate gets to contrast and compare the rival policies.
What's happened in the economic downturn is that - like election time - it's been a time for getting off the fence and offering detailed solutions, which are then scruntinsied. They're then open to attack. No criticism of the Tories. It would be the same the other way round. Unfortunately for them, their suggested polices have gone down very badly and made them look inexperienced.
The other factor when you have to outline policy (and this happened to Labour in the late 80s and early 90s) is that it's hard to straddle the divide between the centre ground and your core support. The Tories have worked hard to 'disinfect' their image of being a boy's club of private wealth far removed from ordinary folk - and done quite a good job. The problem comes when you have to outline economic policies that either enrage your core support or remind people that you're catering more for the rich than the poor.
With so long until the next election, they were able to attack government policy and talk in general terms about what they'd do, while declining to give detailed policies of their own. That's the beauty of opposition - you don't really have to. It means that you have something to attack but nothing that can really get you into critical strife. It's a sure-fire boost in the polls.
It's the same with almost any electoral term. The Opposition gets a big mid-term bounce which withers (to at least some degree) when election time approaches because the electorate gets to contrast and compare the rival policies.
What's happened in the economic downturn is that - like election time - it's been a time for getting off the fence and offering detailed solutions, which are then scruntinsied. They're then open to attack. No criticism of the Tories. It would be the same the other way round. Unfortunately for them, their suggested polices have gone down very badly and made them look inexperienced.
The other factor when you have to outline policy (and this happened to Labour in the late 80s and early 90s) is that it's hard to straddle the divide between the centre ground and your core support. The Tories have worked hard to 'disinfect' their image of being a boy's club of private wealth far removed from ordinary folk - and done quite a good job. The problem comes when you have to outline economic policies that either enrage your core support or remind people that you're catering more for the rich than the poor.
I am a voter who tends to vote centre or tory, never voted labour and doubt I ever will.
I am afraid Cameron comes across to me as far to lightweight, far to "posh" (if you can be accussed of such a thing), and not the right man for a fight.
Whether you like her or not, Margaret Thatcher was a person who WAS ready for a fight.
If I was in a policital debate, I would rather have Thatcher in my team than Cameron. In fact I would rather have Wlliam Hague in my team than Cemeron.
Labour have ruined the UK with their financial and immigration policies, and I would LOVE to tget them out, but not sure I could bring myself to vote for Cameron.
I am afraid Cameron comes across to me as far to lightweight, far to "posh" (if you can be accussed of such a thing), and not the right man for a fight.
Whether you like her or not, Margaret Thatcher was a person who WAS ready for a fight.
If I was in a policital debate, I would rather have Thatcher in my team than Cameron. In fact I would rather have Wlliam Hague in my team than Cemeron.
Labour have ruined the UK with their financial and immigration policies, and I would LOVE to tget them out, but not sure I could bring myself to vote for Cameron.
When McMillan was in power for the Tories in the 1950s half his cabinet had been to Eton.
David Cameron went to Eton.
I remember in the 1980s or thereabouts Douglad Hurd said:
"In the 1950s going to Eton was a positive asset for getting on in politics, nowadays it is a negative"
While some centre and left floating voters can bring themselves to vote tory if they support the leader (as many did for Thatcher) I dont think ANY left voters will be able to bring themselves to vote for Cameron.
For a tory party to get into power in needs those floating centre and slightly left voters, and I dont think Cameron appeals to them.
David Cameron went to Eton.
I remember in the 1980s or thereabouts Douglad Hurd said:
"In the 1950s going to Eton was a positive asset for getting on in politics, nowadays it is a negative"
While some centre and left floating voters can bring themselves to vote tory if they support the leader (as many did for Thatcher) I dont think ANY left voters will be able to bring themselves to vote for Cameron.
For a tory party to get into power in needs those floating centre and slightly left voters, and I dont think Cameron appeals to them.
>brand himself as middle-class rather than as left or
>right or Eton.
I am afraid it is not as simple as that. You cannot "brand" yourself, others will brand you from what they see.
When Katie Price (Jordan) tried to buy tickets for a recent up-market polo charity event they refused to sell her tickets.
Katie Price may wish to brand herself as "up market" but she will NEVER been seen as up market no matter what she does.
Similar with Cameron.
The working class voter (who may have voted for Thatcher) will always see Cameron for what he is, a man who had a priviliged upbringing and priviliged schooling, and I dont think the working class voter will vote for him.
>right or Eton.
I am afraid it is not as simple as that. You cannot "brand" yourself, others will brand you from what they see.
When Katie Price (Jordan) tried to buy tickets for a recent up-market polo charity event they refused to sell her tickets.
Katie Price may wish to brand herself as "up market" but she will NEVER been seen as up market no matter what she does.
Similar with Cameron.
The working class voter (who may have voted for Thatcher) will always see Cameron for what he is, a man who had a priviliged upbringing and priviliged schooling, and I dont think the working class voter will vote for him.
More important than any of that is to come up with some policies which will appeal to the majority of people who are likely to bother to vote.
At present the Tories are trying to woo people who are unlikely to vote at all and those who would vote for a tub of lard provided it was labelled "Labour".
What they need to do is to develop policies that appeal to those who, for one reason or another, were foolish enough to believe that "Things Can Only Get Better". They have seen now that they can, and indeed have, got a whole lot worse.
But I have not seen any credible alternative policies and the danger for the Tories is that many people prefer the devil they know - even if it does cost them their jobs, their savings and their houses.
At present the Tories are trying to woo people who are unlikely to vote at all and those who would vote for a tub of lard provided it was labelled "Labour".
What they need to do is to develop policies that appeal to those who, for one reason or another, were foolish enough to believe that "Things Can Only Get Better". They have seen now that they can, and indeed have, got a whole lot worse.
But I have not seen any credible alternative policies and the danger for the Tories is that many people prefer the devil they know - even if it does cost them their jobs, their savings and their houses.
Does anyone think that the Tories are lying low, as there is still some way to go to the next General Election. Deciding to wait and see whether the present government which caused the present problems, can make the situation worse by trying to spend their way out of the difficulties with money they don't have, and can only increase the borrowing to pay for it. Ultimately digging themselves into a deeper hole than they are already in. Such a strategy could work in favour of the Tories, as by the time of the next General Election the electorate would be so despairing of the situation that they would then vote Tory. Could the thinking be that Labour has made such a mess of things, so let them try to correct it, before a different party takes on the very tough task of putting things right.
The public are so disillusioned with the present state of the parties that I don't think they are bothered either way.
The days have long gone when Labour was for the working man and the Conservatives were more for the better off.
Can anyone remember the last time that a person went into politics because they wanted to do good for their fellow man? No these days they enter politics as a very lucrative personal career choice.
These days the politicians just do not listen to the people who put them into power, which only increases the public's disillusionment with them.
This state of affairs is very dangerous because it is creating a void into which any extreme party could easily infiltrate into.
The days have long gone when Labour was for the working man and the Conservatives were more for the better off.
Can anyone remember the last time that a person went into politics because they wanted to do good for their fellow man? No these days they enter politics as a very lucrative personal career choice.
These days the politicians just do not listen to the people who put them into power, which only increases the public's disillusionment with them.
This state of affairs is very dangerous because it is creating a void into which any extreme party could easily infiltrate into.
the thing with the political parties is whoever is in control has to deal with a situation and the rival parties are then in a position to comment and criticise the way the government has dealt with it and then come up with their own solution after the fact often better than the governments due to them being able to see what mistakes were made
these situations are what sways floating voters to certain parties at certain times so that party then looks better but in the case of the tories at the minute the solutions they are coming up with are no better if not worse than the present government and therfore are coming off with an air of uncertainty thus making the floating voters float somewhere else and the marginal toriy supporters doubt Cameron and support someone else
these situations are what sways floating voters to certain parties at certain times so that party then looks better but in the case of the tories at the minute the solutions they are coming up with are no better if not worse than the present government and therfore are coming off with an air of uncertainty thus making the floating voters float somewhere else and the marginal toriy supporters doubt Cameron and support someone else
Very soon Bottlers bubble will burst and he will be seen for what he is - an arrogant fradster. Spin, lies, deceipt and some really underhand methods verging on Stalinism have been buried by the so called Credit crunch. This will soon be boring news and the media will return to the aforementioned topics.
As for the supposed unemployment figures that is a joke. a) They are rising rapidly and next year will see them much higher. Secondly labour has spun them into other things such as disability or jobseekers or training that are not always counted in. On top of this 800 000 extra civil servants that cost the public purse far more than unemployment benefit and produce zilch to the GDP makes it a joke.
And lets not forget good old Mandy. It is already suspicious with these new Euro rulings and it cant be long before he is due another big boob - probably March so perhaps an early election is nigh ?
As for the supposed unemployment figures that is a joke. a) They are rising rapidly and next year will see them much higher. Secondly labour has spun them into other things such as disability or jobseekers or training that are not always counted in. On top of this 800 000 extra civil servants that cost the public purse far more than unemployment benefit and produce zilch to the GDP makes it a joke.
And lets not forget good old Mandy. It is already suspicious with these new Euro rulings and it cant be long before he is due another big boob - probably March so perhaps an early election is nigh ?
briononAnswer-there are now one Million unemployed,under the Tories it was Three {yes 3} Million unemployed.
Not sure where you are getting your figures from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7724084.st m
The number of people out of work in the UK in the three months to September jumped by 140,000 to 1.82 million - the highest in 11 years.
It was also not 3 million in 1997 - when New Labour took over - it was around 2 million. That was in the early 90s.
I am afraid that the fact is that Labour took over a strong, working economy. But your anti tory bias will not let you accept that will it?
You can also look at the number of public sector workers - that has increased tremendously under New Labour - ie give the unemployable jobs which we pay for and that keeps the unemployment figures down.
Not sure where you are getting your figures from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7724084.st m
The number of people out of work in the UK in the three months to September jumped by 140,000 to 1.82 million - the highest in 11 years.
It was also not 3 million in 1997 - when New Labour took over - it was around 2 million. That was in the early 90s.
I am afraid that the fact is that Labour took over a strong, working economy. But your anti tory bias will not let you accept that will it?
You can also look at the number of public sector workers - that has increased tremendously under New Labour - ie give the unemployable jobs which we pay for and that keeps the unemployment figures down.
And also - bear in mind that there are another almost 8 million who are 'economically inactive' - ie not claiming Unemployment benefit: The inactivity rate for people of working age was 20.9 per cent for the three months to October 2008, up 0.1 over the previous quarter but down 0.2 over the year. The number of economically inactive people of working age increased by 39,000 over the quarter but fell by 33,000 over the year to reach 7.90 million.
Source: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id =12
These can be people who are carers to family, people on disability benefits, or people who have sufficent savings to not claim benefits
Source: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id =12
These can be people who are carers to family, people on disability benefits, or people who have sufficent savings to not claim benefits
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