So it's not all doom and gloom then.

[LucyThomas5]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7896 828.stm?lss

[Quinlad]

I got it from the Times, Lucy.

Notice that it doesn't say a convicted murderer. Because he isn't one.

That's pretty basic.

[LucyThomas5]

Quinlad. Pure semantics on your part and nothing else. So if we use your logic, Hitler did nothing wrong because he was never convicted in a court of law.

[Gormless]

Words like "escape"??

It is a hospital, not a prison.

[Sasha13]

Jake - I have to say your first post is the most offensive I've seen on this site since I joined, which is a fair few years ago.

[Quinlad]

Lucy. So we disregard the entire body of law that concerns manslaughter?

I know you've never bothered to think about why we have the distinction between murder and manslaughter but maybe google it and read about the rationale? I can provide links if you like.

By your logic, the guy that accidentally left the bow doors open in the Zeebrugge ferry disaster is the 'murderer' of 193 people, making him one of the most notorious multiple murderers the world has ever seen.

And I never said the guy had done nothing wrong. Manslaughter is a criminal offence. But it's not the same as murder.

[LucyThomas5]

Quinlad. You continue to talk absolute bol**cks. You can call it what you like. His victim was stabbed repeatedly and an attempt was made to hide the body. In the eyes of any right-thinking person he is a murderer even if you and his lawyers think otherwise. At least his lawyers have the excuse that they needed to act in the best interests of their client. What is your excuse.

This man was a violent killer and society is better off without him.

[Quinlad]

The law takes into account factors that suggest a crime isn't the result of someone's free will. That means mental as well as physical.

If I have a muscular defect that causes my arm to spasm and as a result, while holding a knife, I stab you in the heart, that wouldn't be murder. No-one would suggest it was my intention to kill you. I wasn't able to control my arm.

The same applies with a mental defect. If man is unable to operate free will because of a mental illness, we don't regard that as murder. It's manslaughter (still a criminal offence).

I know it's not the sort of basic medicine you pick up from GMTV, but the medical and legal profession all agree on it.

It's not just me and his lawyer. Every politican, every newspaper, every commentator (even your crazy right-wing ones) agrees that insanity is a defence to murder, and that we should distinguish between manslaughter and murder.

The only reason you don't is because you've never bothered to think about it.

[Oneeyedvic]

In the eyes of any right-thinking person he is a murderer even if you and his lawyers think otherwise.

And of course the judge - who actually saw and heard evidence as opposed to just making a decision on the back of a newspaper article.

[LucyThomas5]

Oh, go away. You are both as bad as each other. Both woolly-minded liberal lefties. Would you still be of the same opinion if he had murdered your brother?

[ELVIS68]

"Caesar had failed to return after spending time unescorted in the hospital grounds on Tuesday morning and people were warned not to approach him"

Unescorted?...FFS...good job the train hit him

The **** desereved to die, it`s the victims family and the train driver I feel sorry for

[paraffin]

I reckon he'd had enough and simply went off the rails!!!

[ELVIS68]

Or on them

[beso]

I see several problems here relating to a failure in the duty of care by the hospital and legal system.

Failure to protect the patient from his own mental illness. Failure to adequately keep dangerous people from public. Previous escapes have killed.

Failure by the legal system to ensure that dangerous people are placed in secure environments. Failure to fix the security or change its sentencing after repeated problems.